I realize that most of us have neither the time nor interest for complex arguments about the Bible. So lets us this thread for posting examples of anachronisms obvious to anyone reading with an eye to see them. I'll start with some rather glaring statements in the Pentatuch that preclude Moses as the author as is claimed by Jew and Xtian alike. Genesis 12:6 says, "and the Canaanites were THEN in the land" making plain that the story is being told at a time when the Canaanites were not in the land., Gen. 13: 7 similarly says, "the Canaanite and the Perizzites THEN lived in the land".
Gen 50:19 describes a place as being,"on the other side of the Jordan" that is EAST of the river, making clear the author was in Canaan at the time, when according to the story Moses never went there.
Deut. 34 not only tells about the death of Moses (yet Moses is author?) but goes so far as to say, "and never since has a prophet like Moses arisen in Israel." Betraying an author that is looking deep into the mythic past for the setting of this story.
Moses did not write Pentatuch
by peacefulpete 15 Replies latest watchtower bible
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peacefulpete
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True North
What is the rationale the WT uses to address the scriptures you cited? Isn't it something along the lines that Jehovah gave Moses prophetic foresight or some such? It certainly seems a lot more reasonable just to say that at the very least Moses didn't write all of the Pentatuch. So why don't they? Would that upset some other bit of doctrine?
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gitasatsangha
I don't think the JW's maintain that Deuteronomy was written entirely by Moses. I think they went into some length about this in the old Aid to Bible Understanding (A much better book then the two-tome Insight book that came afterwords)
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Sirius Dogma
I read a great book on this subject and quite a bit more. It discusses a lot of interesting questions that have been brought up over the years, like why do some stories contradict each other after a sentance or two. It goes into the political motivation that inspired the writing of certain stories, the infighting between the different tribes and groups of priests and how it all got combined into one big hodge-podge patchwork quilt. If memory serves, genesis alone was 5 versions of a story written centuries apart and combined in josiah's time. Some one can correct me on those facts or just read the book. The book was "Who wrote the Bible?" by Richard Elliott Friedman
He also wrote another book called "The hidden book of the bible" another one I recommend.
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gumby
Moses had the best damn memory of anybody in history! That's right....he remembered cuz god told him. Since Adams time till Moses time 4026B.C.E....to 1513B.C.E (the big event of Moses at Mt.Sinai), which is 2513 years........Moses remembered ALL of it! He remembered Adam and Eve, them being naked, the snake, their kids, everything! He remembered all those names the bible mentions from Adam to himself also! He either remembered when god told him........or god sat there by his side and dictated every word of the entire 5 books!
Gumby
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startingover
Number 12:3 (NWT) "And the man Moses was by far the meekest of all men who were on the surface of the ground."
And Moses wrote this? Vain and arrogant seem to be a better choice of words.
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Farkel
Note Genesis 36:31:
"Nowl these are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom before any king reigned over the sons of Israel..."
The first king of Israel reigned over 350 years after Moses died!
A careful study of the OT contains dozens and dozens of anachronisms such as this. How about "Joshua" in his "own" account of the sun standing still? There are two major errors in this account. Stating that God made the sun rather then the earth "stand still" tells us the "inspired" writer of this account, namely Joshua believed that the sun revolved around the earth. Secondly, he stated that such as miracle had not occurred before or after "up to this very day." "Up to this very day implies a long amount of time, not just the amount of time from that so-called event up until the time the eyewitness of that account wrote about it.
It's all bullshit. For a detailed accounting of the many Bible anachronisms and stupidities, there is no better reference that Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason."
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml
Farkel
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Leolaia
My comments (taken largely from SR Driver) will mostly relate to Deuteronomy:
1. The language in the Pentatuech is much too recent to be that of the time of Moses. The Song of Deborah in Judges 5, which purportedly was composed after the time of Moses, is far, far more archaic. In the case of Deuteronomy, the early prophets such as Amos, Hosea, and First Isaiah, show no certain traces of Deuteronomical language and style, whereas Jeremiah exhibits marks of it on nearly every page, and Ezekiel and Deutero-Isaiah reflect it as well. This strongly suggests that Deuteronomy was written after the time of Isaiah but before Jeremiah.
2. Regarding Deuteronomy, the use of the phrase "beyond the Jordan" (b'br hyrdn) for the country east of the Jordan in Deuteronomy 1:1, 5; 3:8; 4:41, 46, 47, 49, exactly as in Numbers 22:1; Joshua 2:10; 7:7; 9:10; Judges 5:17; 10:8, shows that the author was a resident of western Palestine.
3. There are expressions in the retropects, especially the repeated "at that time" in Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:4, 8, 12, 18, 21, 23 and "until this day" in 3:14 that implies a much longer interval than a mere 6 months since the events referred to took place. Also the differences between Deuteronomy and Exodus 21-23 point to a period considerably removed from each other, with the latter having become obsolete by the time of Deuteronomy's composition. The terms of 17:8-13 in which the consitution of the supreme tribunal is not prescribed but assumed as already known appear to presuppose the existence of the judicature, instituted according to 2 Chronicles 19:8-11 by Jehoshaphat.
4. The forms of idolatry alluded to in Deuteronomy, especially the worship of the "host of heaven" (4:19; 17:3) point to a date not earlier than the second half of the eighth century B.C (cf. 2 Kings 17:16; 21:3, 5; 23:4-5; 11-12; Zephaniah 1:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13; Ezekiel 8:16).
5. The law of the kingdom in Deuteronomy 17:14-20 is colored by reminiscenes of the later monarchy of Solomon. In Deuteronomy, the law respecting sacrifice is unambiguous and strict: it is not offered in Canaan "in every place that you see" (12:13) but only at a single place chosen by God "out of all the tribes to set his name there" (12:5, 14, 18; 14:23, and repeated often), that is, at some central sanctuary or temple. But in Exodus it is said "in every place where I record my name, I will come to you and bless you" (20:24), and the practice described from Joshua to 1 Kings 6 describes sacrifices as offered in different parts of the land, with utterly no concept that a law from Deuteronomy was being violated (cf. Joshua 24:1, 26; 1 Samuel 7:9, 17; 9:12-14; 10:3, 5, 8; 11:15; 14:35; 20:6; 2 Samuel 15:12, 32, etc.).
6. Later theological ideas run thorugh Deuteronomy. In 16:22 we read: "You shall not set up a massebah (standing stone) which Yahweh your God hates". Had Isaiah known of this law he would hardly have adopted the massebah in Isaiah 19:19 as a symbol of the conversion of Egypt to the true faith. Or if he had known Deuteronomy 14:1 would he have said in Isaiah 22:12 that Yahweh called to a practice which is there prohibited?
7. Deuteronomy, in relating historical episodes, is dependent on earlier Pentateuchal materials, compare 1:24-46 with Numbers 13:17-14:25; 14:40-45; 20:1; and compare 2:1-3:3 with Numbers 21:4-35. As a general rule, the substance of the earlier narrative is reproduced freely with amplificatory additions, and a phrase from one incident in the earlier work is applied in Deuteronomy to another. But what is remarkable is that in reproducing and reconstituting earlier Pentateuchal material (including both laws and history), Deuteronomy is dependent on JE, and not P, indicating that JE and P were not yet united into a single work, and JE alone formed the basis of Deuteronomy. Thus we find reference to Sinai, and not Horeb (cf. Exodus 3:1; 17:6; 33:6), Dathan and Abiram but not Korah (Deuteronomy 11:6; cf. Numbers 16), etc.
8. Deuteronomy, in fact, does not claim to be written by Moses. Whenever the author speaks himself, he purports to give a description in the third person of what Moses did or said.
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seedy3
I was reading an article, and I'll be darned if I can find it now, that made the point that moses could not have written the first books of the bible for one very large reason. Many of the places, villages, cities and such did not exist in the days of Moses, many of them came long after. The places however did exits in about the 500's BC. Thus showing the link between the babylonian/pesian influence on the writings, as that is either during or just after the exile to babylon.
another interesting note it the book of daniel, and how so much in dealing with the 500's BC is not completely correct and how they are skimmed over until they get into the "Prophetic" stories of the 200's BC and then how very accurate they become and very detailed. The thought is that Daniel was written somewhere around the 200's BC and not earlier.
I have always contended that the Bible is not the book of the eyewitnes accounts they claim it is, but a fairytale that was made up from many many different traditions and adopted by the Hebrews
Seedy
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Farkel
seedy,
: Many of the places, villages, cities and such did not exist in the days of Moses, many of them came long after.
Try the city of "Dan" for example. Do your research. It did NOT exist at the time the "writer" said it did. It was founded much later.
As I said, the OT in particular is full of ananchronisms. "Dan" is one of many.
Farkel