Jesus versus Judas. (May cause offence) (page 3)

gumby

God knew Judas would carry this sin out before Judas was even born! God knows everything way before it happens correct? Sounds to me like poor ol' Judas was screwed since he was a newborn little baby.

Gumby

donkey

Believers love to point out how Judas was prophecied to betray Jesus. Was this a predestination? Where was his free will then?

oops...

gumby

Where was his free will then?

He HAD freewill. God simply KNEW how Judas would exercise that freewill beforehand. Isn't that possible?

Gumby

donkey

He HAD freewill. God simply KNEW how Judas would exercise that freewill beforehand. Isn't that possible?

...right!!!!

It's like a friend once told me....If you are on a gameshow and I am the quizmaster and I ask you a question and I always have YOUR answer on a piece of paper in my pocket do you have free will if I am guaranteed to have the exact answer YOU will give to all questions (your answer irrespective of whether it is correct or not)? Sound totally implausible? I thought so....

JCanon

Not a critical philosophical point for your article, but Jesus died on Nisan 20th, a Thursday, after being in prison the previous 5 days, enduring whatever that was involved with including a lengthy hearing by Herod. Jesus was arrested on a Saturday, Nisan 15th and spent 5 days in jail until Wednesday the 19th when he went on trial at Noon. He then was taken out to Calgary and impaled by the "third hour", 9 o'clock at NIGHT. Thus for the record, he was actually on the torture state not tree hours as you note but 18 hours, from 9 am Nisan 19 to 3pm Nisan 20th. He then fulfilled the "three days and three ngihts" in the tomb and rose on the 23rd.

Btu as I say, that's just some technical detail. Why is Christ so glorified for what he did and suffered?

If we minimize his personal suffering, which in and of itself did not save mankind, then the focus must go on the mere fact that he was sent by God to become this sacrifice and the REAL sacrifice thus was his willingness to leave his position as an angel in heaven to become in human form and do this in obedience to his father. But even beyond that, the ultimate glory goes to God, the Father himself, for being willing to adjust his own laws regarding sin and death so that the innocent children of Adam who were born into sin but willing to serve God could have a SECOND CHANCE at life. The grandness of that gesture thus is what is transferred to Jesus whether that is understood totally or not. Thus Christ reflects the glory of his Father.

Thanks for your post.

JC

simwitness

I always saw that Judas was extremely faithful, but felt that the Messiah needed a "push" to show the non faithful his true power, and to fulfill prophecy... you see, Judas expected an earthly paradise, with an earthly king.

So, Judas actually showed the most faith in his master, he did not feel that he was betraying him... Now, once his master actually "died" before his eyes, he realized not only that he had "missed expectations" but that at that point, he had "betrayed" his friend and master, taking away the light that had come into the world before it's time.

gumby

So, Judas actually showed the most faith in his master, he did not feel that he was betraying him...

He went right out and hung himself or jumped off a cliff (whichever interpretation you prefer).....Id say he felt he betrayed him.

Gumby

Thirdson

One point Gumby makes always troubled me as a JW. If God knew that one disciple, namely Judas, would betray Jesus how much free choice did Judas have? If by his very nature he was destined to be the betrayer and a betrayer was needed in order to fulfill prophecy how could Judas be condemned for all eternity? To me it always seemed that Judas was devasted by his actions and killed himself in remorse, almost as if events turned out not the way he expected.

That said, I always felt that Pilate's hand was forced as well and that he was coerced into having Jesus executed.

3rd

FlyingHighNow

When I was 13 or so, Jesus Christ Superstar the movie hit the theater. My friends and I went to see it 7 times. Maybe because this rock opera presents Judas as very human, very confused and very sorry for what he did, I have always had sympathy for him.

I always have thought Adam and Eve deserved a resurrection. I have always thought the flood victims deserved one. I have always thought Judas deserved one, too.

Judas went and gave the blood money back to the Priests. He then went and hung himself because of what he had done to Jesus. I think he was very sorry for what he did.

Jesus asked for his murderers to be forgiven for they knew not what they were doing. He was a very understanding and forgiving guy as far as I am concerned.

Flyin'

FlyingHighNow

could have a SECOND CHANCE at life.

Actually, Jesus' ransom gives you a first chance at life. According to the Bible we are all dying in Adam. We are born into sin. The wages sin pays is death. So basically we have no chance at everlasting life. That is unless we are ransomed by Jesus. Once we are ransomed we get that first chance at everlasting life. If you believe the Bible we have today that is.

I heard a talk about this once. Probably some of you did, too.

Flyin'

Jesus versus Judas. (May cause offence)

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