Protesting the War in Afghanistan

by roybatty 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  I must have missed all the protest in the '80s when the CIA was training "Afgan freedom fighters" against the Soviets. It's always hindesight, isn't it?

  Huh? I know that you understand the difference between a "war", like say, the Iraq war, and "the CIA training Afghan freedom fighters" in regards "all the protest" or "the left".

  Now then, if Bush had sent troops in to Afghanastan immediately, then I do believe that *some* people on the far left would have protested, maybe even fairly large numbers of people. But there would not be anything like the protest against Iraq, as the terms for prosecuting the war would have been far different and far more legitimate. The Taliban regime was after all giving a home to UBL and Al Quida.

  The case to the international community could have been made as clear as it was becoming to our own intelligence community, the Taliban and Al Quida were joined at the hip and had no intention of seperating.

  Besides, all of this misses the point. Bush could have gone into Afghanistan his first day in office, and it very well might not have stopped 9/11anyway. The prevention for 9/11 would have been to have had an intense focus on homeland security, sharing intelligence, shaking out intelligence, using that intelligence, speculating on that intelligence. But of course, for that to happen, the administration would have had to turn a least a little bit of attention away from missle defense, away from invading Iraq, and onto them pesky ole terrorist and that Al Quida feller.

  You elect a stupid president, you get stupid priorities acted on.

  Strong cockpit doors and a directive to pilots not to open them under any circumstances... and 9/11 doesn't happen.

  Iraq was somewhat under control where as Afghanistan was completely giving us the middle finger.

  Exactly, well almost... Iraq was giving us the finger, Afghanistan was sticking it's boot up our ass. Iraq was well contained, the world community was involved willingly in the containment, and the Arab community and his own people despised Saddam.
• 

  roybatty

  Huh? I know that you understand the difference between a "war", like say, the Iraq war, and "the CIA training Afghan freedom fighters" in regards "all the protest" or "the left".

  Simon was making a point about those bad boys in the CIA arming the Afghans and how we created the mess in the first place. I'm just asking where were all the protesters?? It's always easy to look back and say "ah hah! see the mess you made!" It's not so clear at the time though. At the time the Afgan freedom fighters were the heros of the world, I believe we even abstained from the 1980 Olympics because the Soviets invasion. So we gave Stinger missles to the Afgan rebels which turned the tide against the Soviets. At the time it looked like we were supporting the good guys, now it's obvious that they don't appreciate what we did for them. Whether it was right or wrong, I don't know. I'm just asking where were all the protesters?

  Besides, all of this misses the point. Bush could have gone into Afghanistan his first day in office, and it very well might not have stopped 9/11anyway.

  I agree but there would have been HUGE protests. Why do you think only shot off a couple of cruise missles after the embassy bombing and the USS Cole bombing? He didn't want his approval ratings to drop.

  You elect a stupid president, you get stupid priorities acted on.

  It is a comfort to me knowing that Clinton was more concerned with getting a blowjob from an intern while deciding on three differnt occasions not to kill Osama.

  Exactly, well almost... Iraq was giving us the finger, Afghanistan was sticking it's boot up our ass. Iraq was well contained, the world community was involved willingly in the containment, and the Arab community and his own people despised Saddam.

  Yeah, shooting at our military planes, that's not sticking it's boot up our ass. Not allowing UN inspectors in per what Iraq agreed to, nah, that's isn't either. Iraq was contained???? lol! I think people were saying the same thing about Libya.....oh, wait a minute, they had a nuke program that no one knew about ...OOPS!
• 

  roybatty

  Face it ... you created the problem. Doesn't seem like such a brilliant idea now though does it?

  The **real** solution is not to create the mess in the first place. People who objected to the war would also have objected to the things that caused the reasons for the war, ie. arms trade, exporting terror around the world, underminding foreign governments etc ...

  Simon, I'm assuming you're also against the British occupation of Northern Ireland. When did British troops going in Belfast and Derry, back in 1969? (and they're still there). You have 30,000 British troops trying to control only 1.5 million people. In Iraq you have 140,000 troops trying to control what, 25 or 30 million people? I'll bet you a pint that our troops will be coming home before the British troops.
• 

  blacksheep

  Face it ... you created the problem. Doesn't seem like such a brilliant idea now though does it?

  The **real** solution is not to create the mess in the first place. People who objected to the war would also have objected to the things that caused the reasons for the war, ie. arms trade, exporting terror around the world, underminding foreign governments etc ...

  Ah, yes. QUITE a solution. You guys caused it. You allowed them to get arms, so it's your fault...

  Glad we have some people in power who can actually DEAL with issues as opposed to assigning blame to the victims.

  I guess Osama bin Laden, with all his weath and wackoness, wouldn't have become the terrorist he is if he wasn't forced into it by being allowed to buy guns...
• 

  blacksheep

  "Strong cockpit doors and a directive to pilots not to open them under any circumstances... and 9/11 doesn't happen."

  Sure, and much great train security and directives to guards to search all backpacks thoroughly would have prevented the bombing in Madrid.

  Hindsight's easy, now isn't it?
• 

  bisous

  I dunno guys. It seems to me that our US government gets involved wherever it is politically expedient ...

  Cases in Point: Afghanistan...before 9/11 horrific oppression took place against women and other religions...where was the US?

  what about Rwanda, Burundi, and other 3rd world countries that we can't be bothered with...

  even Iraq....the reasons for this war that are presented to us are just not believable...

  Democrats or Republicans...pretty much the same on this issue...War is ugly, it is political, and rarely do any sort of protests matter other than to make certain individual consciences are clear.

  I participated in many protests regarding Iraq. Also protests (small) pre 9/11 regarding the abuses towards women by the then unknown religion of the Taliban in Afganistan. Was glad we invaded them post 9/11.

  Fat lot of good any of that did.
• 

  SixofNine

  agree but there would have been HUGE protests. Why do you think only shot off a couple of cruise missles after the embassy bombing and the USS Cole bombing? He didn't want his approval ratings to drop.

  Absolutely untrue. One can fault Clinton for some things, but being weak against terrorist is not one of them. This "wag the dog" bullshit that you have perpetuated above, is, well... bullshit. In fact, there was never a response to the Cole because blame was not assigned for a very long time, not till the current administration got into office. This current administration did not act on that blame assignment either, unfortunately.

  The only point at which Clinton could be accused of being weak against Al Quida (which was at least at the very front of his radar screen, one can't say that for Bush), even a little bit, was after the "wag the dog" accusations were in play and monica-gate was in full swing. Should he have ignored this ferocious pressure being brought to bear on him by people more concerned with democratic pornea their own republican children's lives? Sure, he should have.

  It is a comfort to me knowing that Clinton was more concerned with getting a blowjob from an intern while deciding on three differnt occasions not to kill Osama.

  President Clinton wouldn't be accused of that by any honest person. He gave the order to kill Osama, the CIA failed in their efforts to do that. As they have to this day.

  Exactly, well almost... Iraq was giving us the finger, Afghanistan was sticking it's boot up our ass. Iraq was well contained, the world community was involved willingly in the containment, and the Arab community and his own people despised Saddam.

  Yeah, shooting at our military planes, that's not sticking it's boot up our ass.

  You're right, it's not. I remember those days, and it barely even rises to the level of giving us the finger. They shot, we bombed the shit out of them. rinse. repeat. Remember?

  Not allowing UN inspectors in per what Iraq agreed to, nah, that's isn't either.

  Again, in the scope of world affairs, especially in the context of what America can and can't accomplish, nope, that is just finger waving.

  Iraq was contained???? lol!

  Uh, yeah. Have you been watching the news for the past year or ten? Iraq was very well contained. Now is the part in the program when I laugh derisively at you, rightwing wingnut! lol! *laughs derisively*

  I think people were saying the same thing about Libya.....oh, wait a minute, they had a nuke program that no one knew about ...OOPS!

  I'm sure all dark skinned people with large noses wearing robes look alike to you, but if I may point out the obvious, L i b y a is one country, and I r a q is another altogether. BTW, are you sure no one knew about it?
• 

  copsec

  Sigh, I am so sick of people bashing Bush and acting as if Clinton was so wonderful. They are MEN! They are IMPERFECT. They have both done wrong I am sure. But, being Republican, I have to side more with Bush. Clinton did some of the very things people accuse Bush of but magically, people have forgotten.
• 

  SixofNine

  Hindsight's easy, now isn't it?

  That much foresight isn't that hard though, either. If you think it is, remind me not to put you in charge of hiring anyone *cough* *condirice* cough* to a key defense post.

  Within one hour of watching the trade towers burn, I said to the people next to me "they didn't use guns, they must have used knives, even little pocket knives or box knives. It wasn't just one guy, probably not even two, it was probably like 3,4,5 guys per plane." When, alone in my car listening to that morning unfold, I heard them gasp that a second plane had hit the second trade tower, I immediately exclaimed "FUCK RELIGION", as I knew immediately it was religous extremist terrorism.

  I had never givin the matter a passing thought before that morning, let alone been told that Al Quida, religious extremist/enemy number One was looking to hijack planes.

  Vote for Six, he'll keep you safe.
• 

  SixofNine

  But, being Republican, I have to side more with Bush.

  No you don't. For that matter, you don't have to be a republican.

  As for bashing Bush, you can't beat us, because the decisions he makes *bash* Bush, so you may as well join us.