Interesting post.
The passion of the Bush.....
by LongHauler 58 Replies latest jw friends
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donkey
you can think again because I have a very low idiot threshold.
But you let me post here anyway...
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Brummie
Well I think thats a darn interesting post too Longhauler, of course when it comes to USA History, only us British people know better than yourselves >>winks<<<
Brummie
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Valis
gee...Longhauler AKA master of the obvious...JWO run out of vitriol? Bored enough to grace us with your presence? It must suck to be the underappreciated truck driver you are. My condolances...
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
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hillary_step
Longhauler,
Though a heavy on rhetoric and very, very superficial in its evaluation of history, your post does contain some merit. America is a great nation, whose democratic ideals, while far often easily side-tracked by the abuse of power ( for example, the Union Wars in the 20's, McCarthyism etc ), are ideals which do at least *try* to protect and uphold the freedom of the individual and as such imho are commendable. After all, how many people do you know who wish to emigrate *from* America as opposed *to* America, and yes I agree that many anti American sentiments are based on jealousy and parental training.
What has continually let the US down in its desires to protect its overseas and national interests, and this over many decades, is the lack of Foreign Policy that actually understands the issues at hand. It seems that though made up of a brotherhood of nations, those that formulate US Foreign Policy seem inherently ignorant of the thinking of those those who live outside its boundaries.
I well remember some years ago while travelling in Africa I ended up at an afternoon party at the US Embassy. While speaking to one of the Embassy staff, I asked, "What exactly are you doing here?" He answered, "It is our job to bring as much of America as we can to the nations of the World". I said, "What if they do not want you?", his reply, given quite seriously is interesting, "They will just have to learn to live with us because we are not going away". This is not an ideal attitude to have when posted overseas, and often it is such attitudes that non-US citizens, for better or worse, judge the US by. The whole US overseas Diplomatic Corps needs an overhaul, it is a PR failure, and while the French come in for much criticism by Americans these days, their model is one of the worlds finest.
Just a small example of a superficialty in your statement that leaves you open to accusations that you only see part of the picture:
Have we become so biased to our own self interest that we would refuse to rescue people who are being tortured and slain with impunity by a mad man?
On this I have just a few words to write - "Indonesia" - "CIA" - "Torture of democrats" - should the US bomb the CIA?
One thing is certain, when Nationalism enters the front door, rationality often leaps out of the window.
Best regards - HS
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LongHauler
Valis-
I post far more frequently on JWO then here. This started as an opportunity to get various points of view on what I had to say. Simon and Eman turned it into something else. Although it should be noted that at least on JWO I have gotten some honest replies to my post. Not bitter diatribes from small individuals resentful of those who have "Strayed from the flock" to quote an old JW line.
As for my career, I can assure you that I do not feel underappreciated nor do I need your condolences (or should that be condescension). My quarterly bonus check for 100% on-time delivery and safe driving took care of that.
Has anyone actually read what I wrote? I notice than Simon and Company are certainly para-phrasing parts of it, but certainly butchering it none the less. Was I unclear in the spirit in which it was written? Did no one understand that I was merely using a little life experience to explain my point of increased ignorancy, apathy, and selfishness in the general population of America and western civilization?
Perhaps some whistle blower (Blow Jobber more like it) that spies on JWO gave certain members of this forum an abridged version with just enough actual info to throw childish barbs?
My god, and this brain trust questions my intelligence?
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Valis
uh it would seem to me you aren't happy w/the bashers or those being bashed. Apathy you say? Perhaps, maybe just tired of going to war and being tanamount to a millitary juggernaut that doesn't seem to stop. maybe tired of being part of a war movement based of fallacious claims from the top about WMD...Maybe being critisized for showing sentiment that might seem unpatriotic, but is surely as patriotic as those who blindly support the concept of war. Ignorancy? Not sure that is a word....
You want opinions? Good for you...just remember you may assume your intelligence far exceeds the rest of us, but your words, attitude, and intent say otherwise. Wanna stick around and have decent discussions? Cool...I for one don't give a crap...just don't expect to say whatever and about whoever you want with impunity..If you can't play nice then go back to the hate and assininity of your regular haunt.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
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donkey
assininity
Stop discriminating against me. That word seems to convey that us Donkey's are sinners with speech impediments....
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hillary_step
Longhauler,
I can only, and wish only to speak for myself. I am part of nobodys 'Company' either here or on other Boards that you might chose to post on. I have no interest in what you have to say anywhere else but on this Board and as such I have every right to fairly evaluate a post that is made publicly on this Board.
I feel that I have done so fairly. I certainly do not insult your intelligence, I do question your grasp of history and suggest that rhetoric may in have clouded your rationality in some statements that you have made.
Best regards - HS
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LongHauler
Hilary-
Nice to get an inteligent, well thought out response. I would only like to add the following:
I was not attempting to asert that the U.S. was not without fault. IT IS. I was hoping to point out that most of the countries who so vehemently speak out against our current conflict are countries that would likely not even exist at this point in time had the U.S. and its people not offered thier support and aid during the two world wars. France, Germany, and Russia lead the way in criticizing the U.S. for our use of force in Iraq claiming that we simply want control of Iraqs oil supplies, yet thier very reason for wanting Saddam in power was over oil. All three of those nations had contracts with Saddam himself. Yet they declare thier disgust for war and hold thier noses up at the imperialist Americans who are forcing the world to thier way of life. I've had bowel movments that were more compelling than that tired old song and dance.
Americas foriegn policy has certainly become a troubling issue. On this I agree wholeheartedly with you. Its a delicate balance trying to maintain you place in the world without stepping on too many toes. Who can say whay good foriegn policy is? Is it possible to please enough of the worlds population to give yourself a good standing in thier eyes without simultaneously giving away all that you have worked for as a nation?
Lastly, I realize this was not a polished book report presentation. But I was not trying to quote from some history book. Just to express my concern for the bashing America's name has been taking of late.