Truth is the most hidden of the hidden and the most apparent of apparent.
No big deal.
carmel
Shouldn't the "Truth" be easy to find?
by JH 23 Replies latest jw friends
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MicStroz
The "Truth" of the JW's is their paradigm.....it is a model of reality.
Note the word, model, it is not reality.
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MicStroz
Didn't someone once say.......
One man's truth is another man's trash.
Oh wait that was ........treasure.
Hm.........could be the same thing
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XQsThaiPoes
I don't think there is "truth" in religion. These holy books including the bible are very naive and evil. Then religions interpret them as wise and good because of the flawed logic that a higher power can't be more naive and evil than its worshipers. I have not seen anyone convince me God is absolutely Good like people claim for he invented evil. Nobody can show me Gods wisdom. I believe like at the tower of Babel God gave people so many religions to help keep many down so they can't claim their system is better than his. Nobody listens to me because it is not a comforting idea, but show me something in the bible that cancels out all of the evil. It does not exist. Even Jesus sacrifice is evil a good man dies for bad men who were already executed.
The WTS is on the right track, but If it realizes this it will loose all its followers. Also what is the difference in true vs false religion? I can't tell objectively. Every religion claims to be Gods spirit appointed org. They all use the pity plea to get you interested, while they offer you a cookie. None objectively prove they serve the true God like in the bible. This is the God that has his priest shoot fireballs when you talk smack behind his back. Yet now you can say anything blaspheme and curse his name and not as much as a spark. I am not saying I don't believe the bible. I am saying I believe your religion is inert and the true religion was not based on truth it was just base on whatever the people God liked wanted to believe as long as it didn?t step on his toes. Look how many times his chosen ones the Jews totally stopped believe in their own patron God Jehovah yet he kept messing with them. They did not even worship him half the time. Look at the demon Azazel whom got sacrifices from Gods people with out reproach from God or the prophets. Can you envision the uproar if the brothers made an offering to a demon today?
As for the WTS for all you know God just wanted someone to get rid of the afterlife and the trinity 100 years ago, or actually fill the 144k with 5 or 6 Americans (every tribe, tongue and crap), and has been molesting the WTS ever since for giggles knowing full well when the feathers hit the fan only a few thousand will be paying attention the rest will be checkmated into annihilation by their respective world powers. After 4000 years of God using the same tactic seems like some one would catch on by now.
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toreador
Some things I found interesting in my study of the bible.
Keep the virgins but kill the rest Numbers 31:17-18 ***
17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male
Virgins amounted to 32,000 Numbers 31:35 ***
35 As for human souls from the women who had not known the act of lying with a male, all the souls were thirty-two thousand
If your son is rebellious bring him to older men of city and they must stone him.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ***
18 ?In case a man happens to have a son who is stubborn and rebellious, he not listening to the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and they have corrected him but he will not listen to them, 19 his father and his mother must also take hold of him and bring him out to the older men of his city and to the gate of his place, 20 and they must say to the older men of his city, ?This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he is not listening to our voice, being a glutton and a drunkard.? 21 Then all the men of his city must pelt him with stones, and he must die. So you must clear away what is bad from your midst, and all Israel will hear and indeed become afraid.
If you see a ?beautiful virgin? from among your captives , let her mourn for a month because of the killing of her father and mother and then you can have relations with her and if you decide you don?t like her let her go but you can?t sell her.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 ***
10 ?In case you go out to the battle against your enemies and God your God has given them into your hand and you have carried them away captive; 11 and you have seen among the captives a woman beautiful in form, and you have got attached to her and taken her for your wife, 12 you must then bring her into the midst of your house. She must now shave her head and attend to her nails, 13 and remove the mantle of her captivity from off her and dwell in your house and weep for her father and her mother a whole lunar month; and after that you should have relations with her, and you must take possession of her as your bride, and she must become your wife. 14 And it must occur that if you have found no delight in her, you must then send her away, agreeably to her own soul; but you must by no means sell her for money. You must not deal tyrannically with her after you have humiliated her.
Acct of David and Bathsheeba and God striking David son for the sins of the father 2 Samuel 12:11-18 ***
11 This is what God has said, ?Here I am raising up against you calamity out of your own house; and I will take your wives under your own eyes and give them to your fellowman, and he will certainly lie down with your wives under the eyes of this sun. 12 Whereas you yourself acted in secret, I, for my part, shall do this thing in front of all Israel and in front of the sun.??
13 David now said to Nathan: ?I have sinned against God.? At this Nathan said to David: ?God, in turn, does let your sin pass by. You will not die. 14 Notwithstanding this, because you have unquestionably treated God with disrespect by this thing, also the son himself, just born to you, will positively die.?
15 Then Nathan went to his own house.
And God proceeded to deal a blow to the child that the wife of U·ri´ah had borne to David so that it took sick. 16 And David began to seek the [true] God in behalf of the boy, and David went on a strict fast and came in and spent the night and lay down on the earth. 17 So the older men of his house stood up over him to raise him up from the earth, but he did not consent and did not take bread in company with them. 18 And it came about on the seventh day that the child gradually died
In verse 11 above God prophesied that that he would give David?s concubines to his fellow man to have sex with. It turns out that this person was David?s own son Absalom
*** Rbi8 2 Samuel 16:22 22 Accordingly they pitched a tent for Ab´sa·lom upon the roof, and Ab´sa·lom began to have relations with the concubines of his father under the eyes of all Israel.
If a man takes a wife and later finds out she was not a virgin she must be stoned. Deuteronomy 22:20-21 ***
20 ?If, though, this thing has proved to be the truth, evidence of virginity was not found in the girl, 21 they must also bring the girl out to the entrance of her father?s house, and the men of her city must pelt her with stones, and she must die, because she has committed a disgraceful folly in Israel by committing prostitution in the house of her father. So you must clear away what is bad from your midst.
If two men are fighting and a woman grabs the man not her husband by his privates her hand must be cut off.
*** Rbi8 Deuteronomy 25:11-12 ***
11 ?In case men struggle together with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the hand of the one striking him, and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of him by his privates, 12 you must then amputate her hand. Your eye must feel no sorrow.
David kills 200 Philistines and brings their foreskins (skin from their penises) to Saul to buy his first wife (Saul's daughter Michal). Saul had only asked for 100 foreskins for his daughter, but David was feeling generous and brings him 200 foreskins and Saul sees that God must be with David from this act.
1 Samuel 18:27-28 ***
27 So David rose and he and his men went and struck down among the Phi·lis´tines two hundred men, and David came bringing their foreskins and giving them in full number to the king, to form a marriage alliance with the king. In turn Saul gave him Mi´chal his daughter as a wife. 28 And Saul got to see and know that God was with David
What God makes people do
Jeremiah 19:9 ***
9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters; and they will eat each one the flesh of his fellowman, because of the tightness and because of the stress with which their enemies and those seeking for their soul will hem them in.??
Ezekiel 5:10-11 ***
10 ???Therefore fathers themselves will eat sons in the midst of you, and sons themselves will eat their fathers, and I will execute in you acts of judgment and scatter all the remainder of you to every wind.11 ??Therefore as I am alive,? is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord God
Leviticus 26:28-29 ***
28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU, and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins. 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.
Exodus 29: starting at about verse 15 to verse 46 is pretty interesting about how much blood is being spread around. I didn?t quote this one.
Jer.32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for the Lord?"
"With God all things are possible."
Maybe not
"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
Exodus 21:15
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
21:16
21:17
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Hosea 9:14
Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
9:16
Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
Curses son because of fathers actions
Genesis 9:22
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father , and told his two brethren without.
9:23
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father ; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
9:25
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
2 Kings 5:27 The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever.
Num.15:35 "And the Lord said unto Moses, The man [who was found picking up sticks on the sabbath] shall be surely put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones."
"Thus saith the Lord of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare him not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
"Thou shalt not kill."
"Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor."
Women speaking in church YES
I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church.
("I commend you to our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church." -- The Revised Standard Version )
NO
1 Cor.14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Deuteronomy : 23:1
23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Exodus -- 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
Numbers 25:4
1. Deuteronomy
- And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.-- 2:34
- And we utterly destroyed them, ... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.-- 3:6
- And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.-- 7:2
- And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them.-- 7:16
- Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.-- 13:15
- And the man that ... will not hearken unto the priest ... that man shall die.-- 17:12
- And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women ... shalt thou take unto thyself.-- 20:13-14
- But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth.-- 20:16-17
- Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long.-- 28:32
- The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.-- 28:35
- And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.-- 28:53
- So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat.-- 28:55
- The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, and toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them.-- 28:56-57
- I will heap mischiefs upon them. I will spend mine arrows upon them.-- 32:23
- They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.-- 32:24
- The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.-- 32:25
- If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh.-- 32:41-42
19. Joshua
20. And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.-- 6:21
21. He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath.-- 7:15
22. The LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.-- 7:25
23. So smote all the country ... he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.-- 10:40
24. The LORD God of Israel fought for Israel.-- 10:42
25. 1 Samuel
26. And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.-- 6:19
27. 1 Kings
28. He smote all the house of Jeroboam; he left not to Jeroboam any that breathed, until he had destroyed him, according unto the saying of the LORD.-- 15:29
29. He slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall ... according to the word of the LORD.-- 16:11-12
30. They took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to Jezreel. 2 Kings 10:7
31. So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.?1 Chronicles 21:14
Imagine how much animal blood was involved here. Imagine you being one of the ones who had to kill all these animals.
2 chronicles 7:4
Then the king and all the people offered sacrifices before the Lord.
7:5
And king Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty and two thousand oxen, and an hundred and twenty thousand sheep: so the king and all the people dedicated the house of God.
Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods. And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out. 2 chronicles 21:14
Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
13:18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.
1. Jeremiah
- They shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.-- 8:2-3
- For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.-- 8:17
- Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.-- 11:11
- Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine.-- 11:22
- Deliver up their children to the famine, and pour out their blood by the force of the sword; and let their wives be bereaved of their children, and be widows; and let their men be put to death; let their young men be slain by the sword in battle.-- 18:21
- I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.-- 19:7
- And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend.-- 19:9
Even the beasts must have sinned somehow as they will be destroyed as well.
- And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall die of a great pestilence.-- 21:6
- And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land.-- 24:10
Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt break the sherds thereof, and pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekial 23:34
- And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD.-- 26:6
- For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her streets ... and they shall know that I am the LORD.-- 28:23
1. Hosea
- Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.-- 9:16
- Their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.-- 13:16
1. Zephaniah birds and fishes as well
- I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea.-- 1:2-3
- And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, ... and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.-- 1:17
- All the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.-- 3:8
1. Zechariah
- I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.-- 11:9
- And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.-- 13:3
- Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.-- 14:12
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talesin
Truth imo is easy to find.
You are born, life happens, you die.
End of story, what's the big mystery?
The Bible is a fiction, written to control people. That's the porpoise of religion, again imo.
talesin
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JamesThomas
There is only one truth which is undeniable and unquestionable: the conscious awareness which reads this (everything else could be a dream). At our consciousness' core is the ultimate Truth, our true identity. Truth, is hard to find because there is focus and seeking outward, rather than inward into what is seeking. j
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wheres caleb?
Jesus said, "Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." Pilate said to him: "What is truth?"
'Truth' is whatever you choose to believe. People claim that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Well ... there you go.
Elsewhere is right. I prefer 'fact'.
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JAVA
"Those who know that they don't know, knows." I believe religion is a concept, not fact. When religion is turned into "Truth," followers fail to realize they really don't know.
It's been months since I've visited--nice seeing some old friends, and the many new folks, too.
Michael (counting time at the coffee shop)
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frankiespeakin
JT,
I agree,, with you,, I can not prove that you are right,, but deep down inside,,, I feel intuitively,,, you are right.
We have no proof,, but our own senses(((5 or perhap more if we develope them or become aware of them))) that the world is what it is,, but this can never be considered positive proof,, only relative,,, which means it is faulty.
I agree the the only thing we can vouch for is our own consciousness and even that can become suspect.