FORMER JW ELDERS, on JWD, 2004 LIST (page 10)

slipnslidemaster

Just for the record, Flower is pretty damdiddiddlydoo cool herself!!

cruzanheart

AND beating up on someone to prove your point is rather lame IMO.

Especially when you then proceed to announce that you will not read this thread anymore. How lofty of you, talesin, to say something so hurtful and then not stick around to see the end result. I'm sure that will make it all better, huh?

Look, I'm a woman too and I saw and felt firsthand the ignominious position we females were put into when we were in the organization. No, Mouthy, my husband never beat or belittled me, and I am so very sorry that you had to suffer that. Talesin, I don't know what happened to make you so angry, but whatever it is I'm sorry it happened to you. I happen to think that both men and women are equally important, because each contributes something to life. And I see very little of the Witness mysoginism by the men on this board. Most of them, jst2laws AND my husband, Big Tex, included, are the gentlest and kindest of men and the first to give their wives and other women the respect they deserve.

I am sick to death of hearing about man-bashing jokes, put-downs, insults, and hatred of men. If anything like that was said of women, there's be a hue and cry from the feminists in this world that would make your head spin. Yet almost every day we are assaulted by the latest man-bashing joke. WELL, I FOR ONE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF IT!!! IF YOU WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING, THEN TREAT YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS THE SAME WAY, IRREGARDLESS OF THEIR SEX!! ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE PROVEN POST AFTER POST TO BE NOTHING BUT KIND AND CONSIDERATE TO OTHERS.

I think it's been quite well established what jst2laws was trying to accomplish with this thread. I'm really sorry it got off track. If you want to make it better, start a thread about how long all of us were Witnesses -- I for one was raised a Witness, was baptized at age 9, pioneered for 13 years, and left when I was 46. That's a pretty impressive track record.

Shall we all move along now?

Nina

slipnslidemaster

I think it's been quite well established what jst2laws was trying to accomplish with this thread. I'm really sorry it got off track. If you want to make it better, start a thread about how long all of us were Witnesses -- I for one was raised a Witness, was baptized at age 9, pioneered for 13 years, and left when I was 46. That's a pretty impressive track record.

I think that is a good way to look at it. I was raised a Witness, baptized at 17. I'm inactive so I've technically never left.

jst2laws

That Bastard Jst2laws finally responds, Flower, Mouthy, and all the ladies offended by this thread, I'm am sorry. While the purpose of the thread was far different than your reaction to it I should have anticipated how many women would react to this and included some sort of acknowledgement of your feeling from the start of this post. I know you , and possibly every woman here, has been hurt by elders in the Watchtower. This was no attempt to elevate elders in the Watchtower, nor focus on "men" who once were elders in the WT. It was only to show, as several have pointed out, that many of the men who were once part of that system have taken a stand for you and everyone else harmed. Those who have joined the list are not looking for admiration but are publicly stating their separation from the very thing you have been injured by and seemed to be offended by. Please accept these men as now your allies, and the only reference to what we used to be is to encourage others who are thinking about bolting as we did. As to the "low life" comments several have stated "Perhaps it would be a bit less offensive if those of use who weren't elders, bethelites and/or CO or DO's weren't labeled as exjw misfits & lowlifes". While I certainly did not intend to state that I see how some have interpreted it. Here is what I said:

"One of the reasons for this thread is to help lurkers see that this site is not the home of exjw misfits and lowlifes. There are former elders, bethelites, and occasional CO or DO. The Watchtower is loosing their best, and that includes you, because you are an individual who thinks for himself/herself. "

The remark, as Lyineyes stated, was meant to express the nagging doubts in the minds of "lurkers' here. As you can see from the quote in context that I was TRYing to include everyone here as equal to elders, bethelites, CO's and DO's who have left as "you are an individual who thinks for himself/herself". It appears I did not word that well enough to make that point. Please be assured that was my intent. Several have said it would have been better if Jst2laws would have said something like:

Great post, Talesin.
For over a year I lurked as an elder on H2O and this board. For some time I feared I was the most evil appointed servant in the history of the organization for lurking here. Gradually I learned I was not alone.
JW Elders reading this, you are not alone.
The above is a great way to state the purpose of the thread

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/69120/3.ashx

Strange thing is, that IS WHAT I DID SAY. Those quoting that comment are quoting me at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/38147/517391/post.ashx#517391

I have posted this info on several threads now because of editing problems. I wish all the right comments could have been made at one time to assure all what the real purpose of the thread was. But that is Ok, I understand the confusion is also a factor of the hurt we have endured. Please be assured I agree with your feelings and that is why we are here. Jst2laws

flower

damdiddiddlydoo? i've never heard of it but i'm gonna assume its good!

btw, you said..

I must say that aside from not being offended, cause pretty much nothing offends me, I agree with Flower on most of her take on this. I didn't think of the female thing but the other stuff I agree with.

I wasnt offended either, it would take much more than that! . And you mean to tell me there is actually a subject where you did not think about the 'female thing'?

SixofNine

By making a list of EX witnesses who held prominent positions that by default makes the rest of us Rank & File ex witnesses. flower

But that is completely accurate, isn't it? Unless you're saying it literally makes (as in creates) two classes of ex-JW's? Btw, my take on all this is that a list of "FORMER JW ELDERS, on JWD, 2004" is very valuable to witnesses who are just starting to spread their wings. Further, this ensuing discussion of "FORMER JW ELDERS, on JWD, 2004 LIST" is also very valuable to witnesses just starting to spread their wings. The need for exiting witnesses to see that so-called "mature christians", people vested deeply into the WTBTS, have chosen to leave, is very real. The need for exiting witnesses to see and take part in reducing the "stars" down to human proportions, is very real. Elders were central to the hell most of us went through as witnesses (while not the architects of our torture, they were the hands-on inquisitors) and the need for exiting witnesses to yell that from the rooftops is very real. Find me just one Jehovah's Witness male who takes in the words found at James 3:1 soberly.

Valis

um flower...its called multitasking..

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

SixofNine

I am sick to death of hearing about man-bashing jokes, put-downs, insults, and hatred of men. If anything like that was said of women, there's be a hue and cry from the feminists in this world that would make your head spin. Yet almost every day we are assaulted by the latest man-bashing joke. WELL, I FOR ONE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF IT!!! IF YOU WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING, THEN TREAT YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS THE SAME WAY, IRREGARDLESS OF THEIR SEX!!

Damn! hear hear. I don't know whether to be elated or depressed, lol. Maybe all the good ones are taken!

ps. still checking around on the camera question

Xena

I am sick to death of hearing about man-bashing jokes, put-downs, insults, and hatred of men. If anything like that was said of women, there's be a hue and cry from the feminists in this world that would make your head spin. Yet almost every day we are assaulted by the latest man-bashing joke. WELL, I FOR ONE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF IT!!! IF YOU WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING, THEN TREAT YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS THE SAME WAY, IRREGARDLESS OF THEIR SEX!!

I appear to have missed that part of this thread...or this board...

Anyways it appears tal & BT have had a misunderstanding....she stated she didn't want any PM's.....he sent a nice one not realizing what she ment....she got upset because she felt he was ignoring her stated request...or that is how it seemed to me in a nutshell.

The written word at times leaves a lot to be desired as a medium for communication....so much is lost....so much can be misunderstood.

I'm sorry both tal and BT got their feelings hurt

edited to add....I would send you a PM tal but I'm to scared to now

BTW jst2laws your post was appreciated

flower

LOL @ Valis

I think it's been quite well established what jst2laws was trying to accomplish with this thread. I'm really sorry it got off track.

Cruzanheart, while I apologize for the hurt feelings that have resulted from some of the comments that were made, beyond the personal attack, I dont see anything wrong with expressing my feelings on the subject or the continuing discussion. I do apologize that BT was hurt by things said. I regret some of the comments that were made.

My point overall was not one of sexism, the fact that elders are men had very little to do with anything I said. But some people apparently had other issues with the thread that needed to be expressed and they should be heard also.

Jst2laws,

I understood your intention and what your post was meant for...I simply disagree. Its not a woman/man thing. Its a human being thing.

If JW's (elders or not) cannot accept from ANY and ALL of us that we are equal human beings and have legitimate and valid reasons for leaving then we should not be catering to their needs to divide us into groups based on our positions in the org so as to choose who they can believe and respect and who they can dismiss as a 'disgruntled df'd person' ect.

We should not give them that. If they have doubts we should give them the means to explore them. If they are hurt we give them the means to heal and vent. If they have questions we supply answers. But if they are thinking 'well these are just a bunch of weak in the faith, df'd, lowly, nobodies who were never really spiritually anyway' then my answer to that is TO HECK WITH THEM. Let them come back when they are ready to see us for what we really are and see the truth for what it really is.

flower

just my opinion

FORMER JW ELDERS, on JWD, 2004 LIST

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