Moscow Bans JW's

by HoChiMin 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw
    I feel freedom of religion has been taken too far in the USA, b/c if a religion can do the harmful thigns like JWS and other cult like religions do, they are dangerous. I guess it is the old freedom of speech and porno argument. do u want poro to exist so all of us can say what we want? One problem with JWS is they are very dishonest while they are requiting people. They do not make it clear the REAL the outcome of DF/DA/SHUNNING(OFFICAL OR OTHERWISE). Oh they tell u, but someone needs to really tell us, u can lose your family, friends job and be an outcast. They are never clear about all that. I think if they were more clear about it, they would have less people join in the first place. Even my children knew at an early age that any religion that causes families to break up is BAD.

    I agree with this comment. As far as I am concerned these organizations should start behaving like other organizations. They must become transparent, must start outlawing all forms of discrimination etc. and have them start paying their fair share of taxes.

    I think what the Russian court has done along with the prosectuion sends a serious shot over the bow of the WTS. And as far as I am concerned .... its a long time in coming. Either the GB gets its collective act together and quit harming little kids and familes or the organization is going to have a real tough time.

    hawk

  • Phil
    Phil

    I suppose the big question here is "What is a religion? Is the Watch Tower a religion or a cult? Without exception and among other things, cults do tend to interfere in the cohesiveness and welfare of the family unit. I would put the Jehovah's Witness group in the cult catagory as with Jones and other similar groups. Just condoning death in lieu of blood transfusions and shunning of persons including the biologic family puts the JWs in the cult catagory and should be removed from the list of "religions" that are acceptable in a orderly society. Freedom of religion does not include the destruction of other facets of our society. The founding fathers were not exposed to what is going on in the 21st century.

  • SanFranciscoJim
    SanFranciscoJim

    I'm going to come out of lurk mode long enough to comment on this. While I personally abhor the WTBTS and what it represents, misleading the membership through less than ethical cultlike means, if you have been following this battle since it first started in Russian courts six years ago, then you know that the courts were heavily influenced by the leaders of the Russian Orthodox church in their decision making process. Not unlike the current administration in the USA where they are being heavily influenced by the leaders of conservative christianity, these religious leaders in both countries have delusions of godhood, and would make the political leaders mere figureheads while running a State Religion from behind the scenes. Did the world learn nothing from the Taliban's near-destruction of Afghanistan and its society?

    If you are going to ban Jehovah's Witnesses, ban the publishing company, not the belief system. By banning the JWs as a religious entity, this will only serve to make them martyrs (i.e. "another fulfilment of the prophecies of the 'last days'"), and drive them underground, thus strengthening their resolve and making them more difficult to reach through the educational process that would teach them that the WTBTS is misleading them.

    Back in the early to mid 1970s (when I was a JW), Russian movie theatres played an announcement that simply stated "Do not listen to Jehovah's Witnesses" on the screen before the movie started. Well, since the JWs were underground back then in the old USSR, most people had never heard of them, and they started asking questions about who these people are that the government felt the necessity to put an on screen warning about them in the theatres. Their numbers multiplied because of this. The same could happen again, therefore attracting even more people into the JWs.

    Interference by religious leaders into matters of politics is as old as time itself, and is no less dangerous now than it was centuries or millenia ago. When Russia was part of the USSR, you were told to be an athiest under Stalinistic Communism. Now the Russian Orthodox church wants to swing the pendulum in the other direction, making theirs the official State Religion. If a person is told what to believe by their government (as directed by religious leaders), then they have no freedom of choice, even if that choice is a bad one. A society run by religion can create a society of reluctant hypocrites, interested only in obeying the laws of the religion to stay out of trouble with the law, not because they believe the tenets of that forced faith.

    A society that successfully separates religion from politics allows individuals to be educated by others who see their belief system as harmful, as we do with the JWs. If the Russian government wants to declare the JWs illegal, they should do so from a corporate standpoint, without any influence from religious leaders. You cannot take away a person's belief system, just because you've made it illegal.

  • sf
    sf

    Hiya Hawk!

    And if Russia had banned them for any other reason I'd probably be indifferent to such, yet it was clearly stated as to why:

    "they destroy families and foster hatred".

    Good reason as far as I'm concerned. And I still applaud the decision.

    Now, did you get my phone message last week? If not, I'll ring you up sometime next week.

    sKally

  • ISP
    ISP

    Well, I thought the JWs were doing Ok in russia!

    I am quite happy with the ban. I see the WTS only as pseudo religious front tacted onto its core business of selling books and acquiring property and funds from devotees. Hopefully some dubs will think over their situation now.

    ISP

  • Realist
    Realist

    the ban is great! there is no reason why a state should allow idiocy hatred etc. just because its caled a religion!

    the ban will not convert the ones who believe in the BORG but it will make it much harder for these idiots to catch new victims in moscow. a worldwide ban of fanatical religion would be the best!

  • wednesday
    wednesday
    the ban will not convert the ones who believe in the BORG but it will make it much harder for these idiots to catch new victims in moscow. a worldwide ban of fanatical religion would be the best!

    they are just going to say that it fufills bible prophecy.

    Then what will they do with all the fanatical muslims that want to blow up the usa b/c they believe it is God's enemy?

    maybe abolishing religion is the answer. but it woud agree with their bible prophecy.

  • seeitallclearlynow
    seeitallclearlynow

    I haven't formed an opinion yet on the ban, but I see it as a ban on a particular cult, not a religion, and there is a difference.

    However, I found these comments noteworthy:

    Russia is doing this JH because they have an extremely closed society composed of politcal and orthodox components working closely together. Unlike the west, anything they see as different is a threat to them.

    The Jehovah's Witness Organization is also an extremely closed society who consider (almost) anything they see as different as a threat to them. Their membership is warned repeatedly against almost everything non-JW.

    I don't say this as an attack of any kind towards anyone here. I just couldn't help seeing a strong resemblance.

  • scotsman
    scotsman

    To those in favour of the ban: if it applied in your country of residence, would you turn in your JW relatives to the authorities? Would you have your children/parents/siblings sent to prison for their beliefs?

  • Realist
    Realist

    they can believe what they want as long as they don't try to influence other people with this shit.

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