H20 Blows it AGAIN!

by Farkel 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Rick the administrator of H20 posted a sad commentary yesterday, and I followed-up with a link to it here. He and others have wondered why his board is a non-entity these days, yet he cannot see the trees for the forest. Well, that post of his has disappeared. I went over to H20 and checked the deletion bin and it wasn't there, either. This means that Rick himself deleted it, no doubt due to the drubbing he got in here for his goofiness.

    He wonders why people like me left H20, and yet his very actions yesterday, first with his rabid post and secondly with its mysterious deletion without comment whatsoever answers his own question better than any of us could. He cannot be trusted. What he says one day as gospel he rescinds the next day. He was also responsible for the mysterious deletion of a very embarrassing post by his hero Greg Stafford, yet would never admit to it. It's obvious he did the deletion because it wasn't in the H20 deletion bin, and none of the moderators had the power to remove deletions from the H20 deletion bin. Only Rick could do that.

    He's been thoroughly dishonest on his very own board, and now he's claiming that those who jumped ship over there are coming here to "set Simon up," among other insane ramblings.

    Thank God Kent saved a copy of his comments and put them on his own site, because they are very revealing. Rick wants a board for JWs who are supposed to be honest and trustworthy, yet he is not even honest trustworthy himself. Therefore, he and JWs will get along just fine.

    I chose to post a copy of it here because I think it belongs in this boards archives, if for no other reason. When people in the future ask "What Happened to H20?" they will be able to read this insanity and understand what really happened to H20.

    Here's the full text of his post yesterday. The first paragraph is Kent's observation about the matter. You can also see it at link to it on his site:

    | http://watchtower.observer.org

    I know it looks like I'm beating a dead horse here, but Rick has been vilifying me and others for some time now, yet we were the ones who contributed the most to making H20 the popular board that it was. His actions remind me of what the society did to Ed Dunlap, Ray Franz and other "old-timers" who gave so much of themselves and then were cast off like dirty dishrags. I'm not to least bit sorry to say this to you Rick: "you deserved exactly what you got, and your actions backfired on you more than you could ever image."

    Here's Kents comments, followed by Rick's post which "mysteriously" disappeared last night:

    --------------------------------
    Kent:

    H2O, gasping for air?

    After years of agonizing over the “monster” he had created , Rick, the site owner on H2O in a rush of “inspiration” succeeded in driving away most,if not all of the regular participants from H2O. At the time he was on a “high” and spared no words to make them feel how great H2O would be without such dregs. Still he seem totally unable to comprehend why the site traffic is down to a “trickle”, so true to his style he has to search for explanations everywhere else. This as usual triggers elaborate conspiracy theories in Rick’s “mind”. His latest and very elaborate fantasy can be read below. This one is so “far out” or one might say “out to lunch” that it speaks for itself. With a site owner like this, who needs to make an effort to “destroy” H2O, he has done it almost single-handedly.

    ----------------------------

    Rick:

    “FIRST, THE REQUEST TO YOU

    Please ask those JWs who have left H2O that you know about (including those who lurk) to come back.

    As you all know, the number of topics and posts on H2O is at a trickle. This creates a "reverse snowball" effect of discouraging those who visit. There's a tendency not to post unless one sees others posting, thereby giving one a sense that they are not the "focal point" of the entire forum (which embarasses many).

    WHAT MADE H2O POPULAR TO JWS IN H2O'S "EARLY DAYS" IS BACK

    - Moderators are free of the former FPP which compelled them to censor posts.

    - Aimoo is now running at full speed without delays, and posting problems were fixed.

    - Jehovah's Witnesses can feel safe at H2O due to its commitment to moderate gross abuses, profanity and porn.

    H2O ADMINS WILL NO LONGER JUMP THROUGH HOOPS FOR ABUSERS AND THEIR ALTER-EGOS

    At the request of "many" who participated regularly, we embarked in a new direction with less moderatorship and arbitrary enforcement of the old Forum Participation Policy (which is under review for major changes). Aimoo has done its share in providing fast access and fixing posting problems. We basically did everything that our "friends" said was necessary to bring H2O back to the original widescale appeal.

    Then we discovered that nothing was what it seemed. Those who made these suggestions proved to be liars. Evidently "they" thought we could not implement changes. Now that we've made all the changes they claimed would restore H2O, we are seeing traffic plummet even further. I've been advised in email that certain former "regulars" on H2O launched a successful email campaign to effectively drive everyone away, by using email accounts under ficitious names that pretended to be baptized Jehovah's Witnesses warning other JWs that I'm an "apostate" and none other than Kent Steinhaug!

    THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE! I am NOT Kent Steinhaug, I'm not Norm Hovland, I'm not Jan Haugland, or any other "apostate." Unlike Kent, I both believe in Jehovah, worship him, and I'm a baptized Jehovah's Witness.

    H2O ENCOURAGES EX-JWS TO VISIT SIMON'S BOARD WHICH IS 99% EX-JW IN DEMOGRAPHICS

    Although I have made it clear to some in emails that I personally think the use of "Jehovah's Witness" in the name of Simon's site is MORE POTENTIALLY MISLEADING than H2O's use of the byline "for Jehovah's Witnesses and other interested ones," that has nothing to do with my respect for Simon and his outstanding efforts at maintaining and running his site!

    It's quite obvious that Hourglass2 Outpost is the NAME of our site, and that Jehovahs-Witness.com is the NAME of Simon's site. Many newbies who are JWs in good standing and have never been on a free-wheeling Internet discussion board have ASSUMED that Simon's board was either Watchtower affiliated, or for Jehovah's Witnesses (just as any Catholic might ASSUME that a site named Catholics.com is for, well, Catholics?). I personally believe this is more misleading to NAME a site after the name of a worldwide religion, instead of making a site FOR those who are members of that religion (as in, FOR Jehovah's Witnesses and other interested ones).

    Suppose our byline said "for Jehovah's Witnesses." If we left out "and other interested ones," then talk about misleading! However, that last part has warned many JWs that we are an OPEN discussion site, and to put on their spiritual "suit of armor" when visiting, because it is not ONLY our friends. Any thinking rational individual should realize that if I invite Jehovah's Witnesses and other interested ones to the discussion roundtable, that you better watch out! Those who claim they are sincerely interested might have hidden agendas.

    We chose not to omit "and other interested ones" because then, we would be accused of claiming to run a site exclusively FOR Jehovah's Witnesses. Period. There would be no allowance for dissent or the "fresh blood" of new opinions. No growth can occur in the organization if only "in breeding" of ideas is allowed. Thus, H2O was born, and its purpose defined herein. I WOULD NEVER RUN A SITE CALLED "Watchtower.com" or "Jehovahs-Witness.com" because personally I would fear it would draw JWs who genuinely believed the site was limited strictly to baptized JWs.

    CLAIMS THAT I CONSIDER SIMON MY ENEMY ARE FROM LIARS WITHOUT ANY MORAL CHARACTER

    Also, contrary to other slander, I don't envy or resent Simon. All the rumors about my not liking Simon, or even hating him, what kind of people do these rumors originate from? I believe these people are like parasites or mold who take great pleasure in attempts to destroy the reputation of others, who actually love to lie, and are without any moral character at all. For whatever reasons, these people have taken on the stereotypical "apostate" profiles that are right out of the Watchtower publications! They impede any reformation efforts, because they validate the Watchtower's claims that those who leave the organization are the vile and disgusting human beings spoken about in the book of Revelation. These individuals make it is much more difficult to get those who lead the organization from Bethel to soften their stance on what constitutes true "apostates," and instead encourage brothers and sisters everywhere to extending a loving hand to those who are spiritually weak!

    I PERSONALLY BELIEVE "THEY" ARE USING SIMON

    As a matter of fact, I think Simon has done a fine job of running his forum. However, I firmly believe that those who trashed H2O over the years are on their best behavior on Simon's forum because they are USING him in some manner.

    Allow me first to eliminate "suspects." Those who run the FREEMINDS.ORG web site including its webmaster Randy have nothing to do with the widescape manipulation that is occurring. I even understand that Randy has placed H2O has the first link for discussion forums listed on his site (either because of our "seniority" or perhaps because "H" in "Hourglass2" is earlier in alphabetical sequence). This means that any JW who is genuinely interested in open discussions without censorship about their religion and its organization should visit H2O. So how would they be influenced by certain individuals in tailored email campaigns against H2O?

    Many of these JWs also post in guestbooks on JW and ex-JWs sites, and post their email addresses. Notice I said both JW and ex-JW sites. There are many JW-only sites where the friends fill out guestbooks and their email addresses. Thus, gathering a list of these sites could be the beginning of a slander campaign from "Sister Warning" who claims she's a baptized JW in good standing, and wants to warn about H2O (but encourages them to go to the "JW-only site called Jehovahs-Witness.com for upbuilding discussions and NO APOSTATE ACTIVITY").

    Within the 2 years before the old H2O closed and relocated, I was approached with requests for copies of the logs and registration list for certain ex-JWs and I refused. Oh boy, did they HATE me after repeated attempts to gain information about JWs (like the constant FAILED attempts to have me grep You Knows I.P. records at Cyberpass and either send or make these available at a password protected location on H2O, in order to track him down). That started the massive slander campaign through email, and attempts to reroute JWs to Simon's site by claiming something like this: "Simon, a brother in good standing in an English congregation, runs a JW-only site called Jehovahs-Witness.com for upbuilding discussions and NO APOSTATE ACTIVITY."

    It was NOT Simon who did this, I want to stress!

    WHO IS REALLY AFTER "YOU KNOW"?

    Guess what, You Know, if you're reading this: The Watchtower Society NEVER was interested in tracking you down. No baptized Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing ever contacted H2O and requested assistance in using your connection through our web server's sockets to trace you! That is all baloney. The Watchtower Society, contrary to what I first believed a few years ago, is not interested in "manhunts" or tracking down anyone. They had nothing to do with Cyberpass cutting us off. That turns out to be the work of certain NON-JWS who for one reason or another felt H2O was not a good influence on Jehovah's Witnesses.

    DOES WATCHTOWER REALLY TRACK DOWN ITS PEOPLE?

    I have heard from reliable sources the Watchtower was in fact very interested in the beginning in monitoring H2O because there were some good points brought out about certain errors in its teachings, believe it or not! The Watchtower is constantly updating its knowledgebase like any good religious organization has the responsibility to its members to do. Call it "new light" or whatever you want, I have been told by reliable sources the fact is the Watchtower pays attention to sites like The Watchtower Observer and does not ignore errors in its teachings (even if it takes years for actual changes to be made).

    I'm not defending them, I'm simply stating what I have discovered over the years on the Internet.

    MISCELLANEOUS LIES SCATTERED TO THE FOUR WINDS

    The email campaign has also gone so far as to imply I'm gay (which I'm not), and anything else that would basically turn people off from wanting anything to do with H2O.

    OVERCOMING ALL THIS SO H2O CAN BENEFIT JWS WHO WANT TO EXPAND THEIR HORIZONS

    I believe one can be a faithful Jehovah's Witness and independent thinker who thirsts for knowledge, and is not afraid to defend their faith with even those who profess atheism or other radically different beliefs! I also believe one day, this independence or true "freedom in Christ" will become the order of the day for most baptized JWs around the world.

    H2O began shortly after AJWR ended. Thanks to AJWR and the first JW reformers, the seed was planted with our Aussie brothers and sisters, and their Internet friends (including myself). That seed spread worldwide to the four winds, and reform ignited like a forest fire intended to clear the thick brush of ignorance and outdated, erroneous Bible interpretations of the past decades.

    There's a potential for millions of JWs who come online to discover that what is wrong with the organization is NOT AT ALL wrong as far as choosing to remain Jehovah's Witnesses as their way of Christian life! The organizational teachings are in constant flux as they are REFORMED in a manner we know as "new light." However, they don't just appear one day as an inspiration!

    This "new light" is the result of RELENTLESS DISCUSSIONS either at Bethel or in various congregations around the world, like those discussions we have seen on H2O during the past 5 years. Many "movers and shakers" visit H2O but need the assurance it will continue not as a place to entertain a core of arrogant and opinionated "regulars," but as an open roundtable style discussion where topics are discussed around in a circle (or in a circular manner, as pros and cons of issues are fleshed out).

    WHAT YOU CAN DO IMMEDIATELY!

    Start inviting as many JWs as you know from all over the Internet to H2O, and warn them that rumors about H2O and its admins are false slander being spread by "apostate" JWs who are out for blood (and I do mean anyone's blood who gets in their way). Assure them we will fight to keep these people out with improved technology for banning them from the source of their transmissions (versus simply banning a screen name). Assure them that we're dedicated to moderating H2O to prevent their exposure to profanity, porn and other gross abuses. Tell them that our ISP has now increased its bandwidth and posting speed, and improved its access to those who formerly had difficulties accessing the site or posting. Give them a rundown of the various forum names in our forum listing.

    Thank you, and may Jehovah bless you all.

    H2O Administrator”

    --------------

    Farkel

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Yes, I was informed privately by Mod5 over there (whoever that may be) that my post wasn't deleted for content, that the lead post was moved so mine was moved along with it. I've got a note in asking where it was moved TO. We'll see what happens.

    RCat, shaking head...

  • m5
    m5

    Farkel. It was not Rick who moved the thread. I fiddled around and I don't know how to retrieve it.

    I did let Roaming Feline know that it had happened because I did not want her to be upset or think she had been 'moderated'

    Have you thought about the example you are all setting to new ones who may be quesioning the organization? By default, you are making the organization look right about those who leave.

    If I had seen all this when I was first questioning the organization I would have never questioned again because they would have looked a lot safer.

    M5 from H2O

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Mod5, I must respectfully disagree. I once was new to H20. It was the first place I saw on the net regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. I was a faithful JW at the time, and what I read got my curiosity up, I must admit. I didn't like the fighting atmosphere, but Farkel DEFINITELY got my attention with the things he had to say. He certainly didn't "run me off".

    And I don't believe that MY post would have turned people away, either. I was giving a truthful comment about what I felt regarding Rick's begging post. Putting the blame on everyone else is going to get him nowhere. I didn't post to the old H20 very often, because quite frankly, I didn't like the war zone atmosphere that existed there most of the time, but, that obviously was the cup of tea alot of people preferred as there were alot of posters there. That is their right, and I didn't begrudge them that. There's room for all of us on the net. [8>]

    Now, they have found Simon's forum to be more to their liking, quite frankly, because Simon is a good-hearted bloke with a level head, and he knows how to deal with people in a kind, fair manner. Rick obviously has some hefty work to do in that area, so he's lost posters, doh!

    What I would do if I were in his shoes, is stop whinging over spilled milk (lost members) and try to improve his attitude. Perhaps, maybe, (long shot, but he can always hope) he might win some NEW posters there who haven't had to deal with his erratic behavior before. Time will tell. But I wouldn't take it to the bank at this point in time.

    RCat

  • Prisca
    Prisca

    Farkel

    Let it go. You're making a bigger mountain out of the molehill that Rick has created.

    This is just a cyber life. It ain't real. Don't worry about your supposedly tarnished name. It isn't so.

    We know what you are like here on this board. Let your posts and replys speak for you. You don't have to make reply to posts on another board. Leave it there. You have a good name here. So cherish it here and don't worry about these sorts of things.

    What goes on at H2O is for the posters & Rick to worry about. If you don't like it there, leave those problems there for them to sort out.

    Do you like it here? If so, share in the conversations here that DON'T revolve around H2O.

    Having read the whole of Rick's post, as per what Farkel posted, I don't see a single mention of Farkel's name!

    So why post this? I actually thought it was a good explanation by Rick of the development of H2O, and he brought out some good points.

    I'm NOT defending H2O, nor am I bashing it. I am simply calling things as I see it, just like all the other opinions that get freely thrown around by others.

    Most of the posters on this board are/were not regular posters on H20. Nor do most of us care. It seems to me the ones that make all the fuss and bother about H2O are a certain small group of male posters who formally posted there.

    All I am asking for is to let the issue go. Everyone should take a deep breath, turn the computer off, and smell the flowers.

    There's more to life than the computer screen you are now reading!

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Prisca,

    You made some good points. I think Farkel should listen, for his own blood-pressure's sake. However, sometimes people don't have to use your name in a post for you to know they are REFERRING to you or your actions. And those same people can sometimes try to TWIST your actions into meaning or being something other than what you actually did. I think that is what Farkel is upset about, and rightly so.

    However, I don't think he should give Rick that much power to upset him. I had to learn that on another board with a couple of nitwits who were always causing problems. I just had to sit on my hands not to reply to them and give them any satisfaction. Farkel, I know it's hard, but try doing the same. You'll be surprised at how much it upsets the other party when you're suddenly mute and they end up shadow boxing!

    RCat

  • Jang
    Jang
    Mod5, I must respectfully disagree. I once was new to H20. It was the first place I saw on the net regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. I was a faithful JW at the time, and what I read got my curiosity up, I must admit. I didn't like the fighting atmosphere, but Farkel DEFINITELY got my attention with the things he had to say. He certainly didn't "run me off".

    RF ... I have to agree with M5 on this one ..... I regularly send newbies to these boards and I have just spent the evening talking to two newbies who phoned me about all this. They are really disturbed. One is ready to sit in the back row for 12 months now to get re-instated. They cannot handle this.

    Those who are emotionally strong may be able to cope with it, but this young lass has just lost her mother to a car accident, and her husband also died not long ago. It was the unloving attitude of the elders that had her look outside. What she has seen this last week or two has only added to her confusion.

    Surely we can all put our petty peeves to one side and consider others .... maybe show some of the love that we didn't get in the borg!?

    You are all attacking Rick .... but have any of you walked a mile in his shoes yet? Until we do walk in each other's shoes we really have no right to attack like this.

    Spirituality recognizes the humanity in each and every one of us .... recognizing that we are no better than each other and we all have weaknesses ....

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Jan,

    I didn't attack Rick, I posted a valid point, which Mod5 acknowledged. Rick shot himself in the foot by posting that tripe, we didn't shoot him! Even Mod5 removed the post because of RICK'S POST, not mine. He told me so!

    As far as the young lass goes, please send her to the "Motherless" list over on Yahoogroups. It will no doubt help her out, and there are ex JW's there who can also help her in a very kind manner. The owner is herself one, and you won't find anyone nicer on the net.

    RCat

  • waiting
    waiting

    hey y'all,

    My flowers are in bloom - but daylilies don't smell, just look beautiful. As for H20:

    Have you thought about the example you are all setting to new ones who may be quesioning the organization? By default, you are making the organization look right about those who leave.

    If I had seen all this when I was first questioning the organization I would have never questioned again because they would have looked a lot safer. - M5 from H2O (bold added by moi)

    I agree on this point. Some feel no responsibility to other jw's looking around to get out of the org. Others do - freedom of choice and all that.

    I think it's preferable to give them a good alternative to the under-the-table fighting, nit-picking, etc., they have in the KH. And I think several forums are necessay for this.

    I really doubt that many jw's in good standing would join a forum named "......x jehovah's witnesses." But forums reaching to all kinds have the ability to attract.

    After all, what's the use of exposing the WTBTS if no one is reading? Most of our egos are formed enough that it's not necessary for us - but lots of newbies are paranoid & jumpy. Give them choices to relax and to actually converse - not necessary fight - with people who have successfully left and found life's not so bad afterall.

    Exposing the teachings is one thing, and the informative sites do a wonderful job of that. Conversing and remaking the ability to make friends, discuss, etc., is quite another.

    Why not cut some slack for Rick and the moderators, and *widen out*?
    Perhaps he'll do the same.

    waiting

  • Lee Elder
    Lee Elder

    The availability of different and varying JW discussion groups is a positive
    in my view.

    Lee

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