If An "Anointed" Is An Alcoholic, How Could He Partake Of The Emblems?

by minimus 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • bikerchic
    bikerchic

    LOL @

    You could tell if the anointed one was an alcoholic, because when at the memorial the wine was passed to him, he'd drain the glass and then hold it out for more.

    he,hee it would probably be more like, "heck with the glass pass me the bottle!"

    I can hear the alcoholic anointed person saying now.............ya gotta do whatcha gotta do, it's for Jehovah but just don't ask me to go out in service!

    It seemed to me last I noticed (4 years ago) the zeal of the anointed was waining, it starts to fall from the top down. But then again maybe it was just the area I lived in.

    Kate

  • blondie
    blondie

    Actually, I have had contact with this question when attending Al-Anon and open AA meetings. AA is not a religious organization but many of the people attending are trying to find their way in some religious setting outside AA. The dilemma of breaking their sobriety comes up. I found this information that shows how people can observe the event and maintain sobriety. There is a difference between an active, drinking alcoholic and a recovering alcoholic. Once a person realizes they are an alcoholic, even if they stop drinking, they remain an alcoholic. Most will tell you that they are only one drink away from a relapse no matter how long they have maintained sobriety. If I were a sincere, anointed JW who was an alcoholic striving to maintain sobriety, I would pretend to drink and know that the event is more than the wine.

    Althouth this is from a Lutheran perspective, the guidelines are adaptable.

    file http://www.wls.wels.net/library/Essays/Authors/S/SchotteyAlcoholic/SchotteyAlcoholic.pdf.
    Since all alcoholics are different, each with a different degree of physical and psychological addition, each with a different length of sobriety, different growth in the AA program and in faith, I propose the following as: Some Sensible Guidelines Please understand that these are carefully evaluated opinions only 1. Explore and Understand your various options. There are some. A. Regular Communion, in Church, with wine B. Private Communion with Grape Juice C. Churches which use individual cups could make arrange to fill one or more with grape juice. D. A drop of wine may be placed in larger amount (1 oz) of water to dilute it. It is important to remember and know that even when Communion is taken with grape juice, this is still Holy Communion. As Luther reminds us, the power is in the Word, not in the wine (the element) 8 . To receive it either way, you are affirming our Church?s confessional stand, not denying it. Most pastors will/do understand. However you may find one or two who don?t, and you will have to educate him, carefully and prayerfully. 2. If you were in a Detox./Treatment center A. Give AA a chance to sink in. Much is said about 90 meetings in 90 days, and it is this author?s considered opinion that at least 3 months of abstinence should be attained before Holy Communion participation needs to be considered. 8 Luther?s Small Catechism, p. 224, # 407


    Page 6
    B. Discuss the matter with your Pastor Beforehand, and discuss it thoroughly. Let him know that this is very important to you, and he will listen. C. If in doubt, don?t at this time. There is no time limit, and if the fear of the wine?s effect does not pass in time, remember, there are the other options. D. If the use of wine causes a ?reaction? upon the first occasion, stop. Exercise your option to use grape juice, rather than endanger your sobriety. 3. Talk with your pastor A. Use this issue to open up and further your relationship with him. He is the key to your growing spiritually in your local congregation. You may be the key to his growth in understanding what ?alcoholism? is and is not. It has been this writer?s experience that many of our Synod?s best trained and most faithful pastors are woefully ignorant and untrained when it comes to alcoholism and AA. B. Makes sure that he understands your anonymity as an AA member. He has no right to violate that. C. Make sure that he understands that if you choose to take Holy Communion in church with wine that it does not mean that you?re ?cured?, or that you?ve returned to drinking again. D. And finally, Make sure that both of you understand that if you do decide that your needs require the use of grape juice for Holy Communion, you are not ?less of a Christian?, 4. If you have a Sponsor; talk this over with him A. He may have some other helpful ideas, or suggestions. B. If Holy Communion with wine causes a reaction, you?ll be calling on him anyway, won?t you? In closing, let me say again that each of us as a Christian recovering alcoholic is a different (person) individual. What may bother me, may not bother another. There are at least two of us in my home congregation. One of us partakes of Holy Communion with wine in the congregational setting, the other with grape juice privately, after the service. Both of us celebrate the Lord?s Supper; both of us need and receive the blessings of it. I can not, nor can anyone, tell you what you should do. No one can judge you or second-guess you about whichever way you choose as best for you. It must be your individual decision, based upon your faith and your Christian common sense, well advised. Remember, even the ?Twelve Steps of AA? are a suggested program of recovery. I can offer no more than that here. But that does not mean that I leave the attending of the Lord?s Table as a matter of personal decision. Jesus said, ?This do.? Should I, Lord? Absolutely yes! There are far too many blessings for me to receive from it for me to miss out on by not partaking of this most wonderful.gift. But should I?with wine?? You must make that decision as the Lord leads you and when the time is right. God be with you. Since all alcoholics are different, each with a different degree of physical and psychological addition, each with a different length of sobriety, different growth in the AA program and in faith, I propose the following as: Some Sensible Guidelines Please understand that these are carefully evaluated opinions only 1. Explore and Understand your various options. There are some. A. Regular Communion, in Church, with wine B. Private Communion with Grape Juice C. Churches which use individual cups could make arrange to fill one or more with grape juice. D. A drop of wine may be placed in larger amount (1 oz) of water to dilute it. It is important to remember and know that even when Communion is taken with grape juice, this is still Holy Communion. As Luther reminds us, the power is in the Word, not in the wine (the element) 8 . To receive it either way, you are affirming our Church?s confessional stand, not denying it. Most pastors will/do understand. However you may find one or two who don?t, and you will have to educate him, carefully and prayerfully. 2. If you were in a Detox./Treatment center A. Give AA a chance to sink in. Much is said about 90 meetings in 90 days, and it is this author?s considered opinion that at least 3 months of abstinence should be attained before Holy Communion participation needs to be considered. 8 Luther?s Small Catechism, p. 224, # 407
    Page 6
    B. Discuss the matter with your Pastor Beforehand, and discuss it thoroughly. Let him know that this is very important to you, and he will listen. C. If in doubt, don?t at this time. There is no time limit, and if the fear of the wine?s effect does not pass in time, remember, there are the other options. D. If the use of wine causes a ?reaction? upon the first occasion, stop. Exercise your option to use grape juice, rather than endanger your sobriety. 3. Talk with your pastor A. Use this issue to open up and further your relationship with him. He is the key to your growing spiritually in your local congregation. You may be the key to his growth in understanding what ?alcoholism? is and is not. It has been this writer?s experience that many of our Synod?s best trained and most faithful pastors are woefully ignorant and untrained when it comes to alcoholism and AA. B. Makes sure that he understands your anonymity as an AA member. He has no right to violate that. C. Make sure that he understands that if you choose to take Holy Communion in church with wine that it does not mean that you?re ?cured?, or that you?ve returned to drinking again. D. And finally, Make sure that both of you understand that if you do decide that your needs require the use of grape juice for Holy Communion, you are not ?less of a Christian?, 4. If you have a Sponsor; talk this over with him A. He may have some other helpful ideas, or suggestions. B. If Holy Communion with wine causes a reaction, you?ll be calling on him anyway, won?t you? In closing, let me say again that each of us as a Christian recovering alcoholic is a different (person) individual. What may bother me, may not bother another. There are at least two of us in my home congregation. One of us partakes of Holy Communion with wine in the congregational setting, the other with grape juice privately, after the service. Both of us celebrate the Lord?s Supper; both of us need and receive the blessings of it. I can not, nor can anyone, tell you what you should do. No one can judge you or second-guess you about whichever way you choose as best for you. It must be your individual decision, based upon your faith and your Christian common sense, well advised. Remember, even the ?Twelve Steps of AA? are a suggested program of recovery. I can offer no more than that here. But that does not mean that I leave the attending of the Lord?s Table as a matter of personal decision. Jesus said, ?This do.? Should I, Lord? Absolutely yes! There are far too many blessings for me to receive from it for me to miss out on by not partaking of this most wonderful.gift. But should I?with wine?? You must make that decision as the Lord leads you and when the time is right. God be with you.

    Since all alcoholics are different, each with a different degree of physical and

    psychological addition, each with a different length of sobriety, different growth in the AA

    program and in faith, I propose the following as:

    Some Sensible Guidelines

    Please understand that these are carefully evaluated opinions only

    1. Explore and Understand your various options. There are some.

    A. Regular Communion, in Church, with wine

    B. Private Communion with Grape Juice

    C. Churches which use individual cups could make arrange to fill one or more with

    grape juice.

    D. A drop of wine may be placed in larger amount (1 oz) of water to dilute it.

    It is important to remember and know that even when Communion is taken with grape

    juice, this is still Holy Communion. As Luther reminds us, the power is in the Word, not in the

    wine (the element)

    . To receive it either way, you are affirming our Church?s confessional stand,

    not denying it. Most pastors will/do understand. However you may find one or two who don?t,

    and you will have to educate him, carefully and prayerfully.

  • minimus
    minimus

    For JWs, the wine has to be the real deal.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Then just pretend to drink. Other religions have faced similar dilemmas. The solution varies from person to person to person and group to group. Religious groups that have communion more frequently, have a bigger dilemma than the JW anointed alcoholic. If person is sincere, they will not worry about it. I knew an anointed brother who was incarcerated during WW2. He had no access to wine and took a sip of water and a bite of his leavened bread. He had no doubt of God's approval of this situation. Better a sober Christian.

    Blondie

  • run dont walk
    run dont walk

    hahahahahahahahahahahaha

    that's agood question !!

    love it

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Our church uses grape juice for exactly this reason. As noted the power is in the word, not the element.

    Being the way JW's do things I suspect that they'd say that he's not really an alcoholic (I can here it in my head now "there are no alcoholics among Jehovah's Witnesses") or they might say he's not really annointed. No way will they make some special arrangement for them.

  • garybuss
    garybuss


    I have heard wine does not bother an alcoholic if it is administered rectally.



  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    very carefully ...

  • got my forty homey?
    got my forty homey?

    The annointed are the personification of perfection on earth, it's impossible for them to be alcholics!

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Once you are confirmed to be an alcoholic, you are always an alcoholic. It is a desease. One who no longer drinks is known as a recovered alcoholic.

    Being an alcoholic should not prohibit one who claims to be of the annointed (according to borg rules) from partaking of "welches grape juice" (not real wine) during the Memorial.

    /<

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