JW suicide vs Non-JW suicide

by Nosferatu 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Nosferatu

  Hey all, I just wanted to let you know that I've read all the experiences in the threads I mentioned in the first post, and my heart goes out to all of you who experienced this in your life.

  I also wanted to put a tally on the numbers you've already posted:

  Total JWs (so far): 34
  Total Non-JWs (so far): 21

  This isn't funny. The JWs are a relatively small group compared to the rest of the world, yet the number of JWs is larger than Non-JWs. Even if the numbers were equal, I still wouldn't consider that very good.

  Some of you commented that this isn't a good way to measure this. Think about it. Even though many have spent decades in the "truth" and were surrounded by these people, we were also surrounded by many people in "the world". We associated with people at work, at school, "worldly" relatives, "worldly" dentists, doctors, teachers. Also, many of the people have been out of the "truth" for quite a few years, and there are also many who were associated with the "truth" for a short period of time.

  If anyone here is associated with another message board that deals with a different faith (ie catholic, baptist, etc), it would be interesting if you did a survey similar to this and post the results.
• 

  acsot

  I have known loads of non-JWs, at school, work, my brother's friends, etc. I don't know of any non-JW within the above-mentioned groups who has committed suicide. I do know of three JWs who did take their own lives. For whatever reason, it's horrid.
• 

  amac

  This is ridiculous! Anyone on this thread ever taken a class on statistics? If so, maybe you can explain how there should be NO CONCLUSIONS based on this information. Well, actually you can make all the conclusions you want, but this information would not support a conclusion either way. Do not be mislead by statistic fallacies.
• 

  LyinEyes

  This thread was started this way..........

  "The reason for this is to actually get some numbers to look at. I've noticed that in the threads above, some commented about having no real numbers to play with that prove JWs have a high suicide rate.

  So, here's what I'm requesting: state how many JWs you knew committed suicide, then state how many worldly people you knew committed suicide. You do not have to give details, as the threads above provide enough."

  I don't think this was meant to be a scientic study per say.......but just a count of what those of us who know suicide victims , can just compare for ourselves the numbers we know JW and Non JW.

  Personally I dont need a class on statistic, I know what I need to know from personal experience in what I have seen, been thru , and now that I am in the real world I can see things on a different level.

  I can say for sure........that the JW's are more depressed , in pain, emotionaly and physically, and they talk about it more, than those I know who are not JW's. This is just my opinion of what I see around me. So there is no way I am mislead by the numbers on this post.......they are real and I have seen it myself....that is enough for me to know that the religion of JW,,,,is a cult. This cult makes most of it's members depressed, and more and more , we are hearing of suicides, or attempts because the JW's never feel good enough, and are loaded down with guilt.
• 

  Corvin

  JW Suicides: 4

  JW Attempted Suicides: 2

  Non JW Suicides: 0

  Non JW Attempted Suicides: 2
• 

  Nosferatu

  This is ridiculous! Anyone on this thread ever taken a class on statistics? If so, maybe you can explain how there should be NO CONCLUSIONS based on this information. Well, actually you can make all the conclusions you want, but this information would not support a conclusion either way. Do not be mislead by statistic fallacies.

  Acsot, I really can't make sense of your post. I'm not going to publish the results and write a 3 page article on how JWs are much more vulnerable to suicide than the rest of the world.

  When I was reading the other suicide threads, I was actually having trouble trying to swallow the fact that JWs are very prone to suicide. If you look at my 2nd post in this thread, I haven't personally known anyone, either JW or non-jw who has committed suicide. I wanted to really see if everyone's a high suicide rate among JWs had some validity. Getting numbers from one person doesn't provide much basis to make a conclusion.Putting all these numbers together speaks a lot louder. I gave a lot of leaning room for it to be wrong (everyone else vs JWs), but the numbers are still high on the JW side.
• 

  amac

  Lyin Eyes -

  I don't think this was meant to be a scientic study per say.......but just a count of what those of us who know suicide victims , can just compare for ourselves the numbers we know JW and Non JW.

  I understand, the problem with this is it is limited information yet people will still base conclusions on it as if it is proof of something. That is what I hope DOES NOT happen, but I know WILL happen.

  I can say for sure........that the JW's are more depressed , in pain, emotionaly and physically, and they talk about it more, than those I know who are not JW's. This is just my opinion of what I see around me. So there is no way I am mislead by the numbers on this post.......they are real and I have seen it myself

  That's fine, just as long as you realize that it has just been your "personal experience" and is not a reflection of either group as a whole (JW or Non-JW.) Just as my personal experience of most JWs around me being happier than worldly people I know does NOT mean that JWs on a whole are happier people, it only means that it has been my personal experience.

  It is akin to the ideas of racism (not that I am accusing anyone on here as being similar to or at all racist, it's just the easiest example I can think of.) Let's say that I am white and I live in a neighborhood that is half white and half Asian. Let's say that I was beat up 5 different times and they were all Asian guys each time. That certainly does not mean that Asians are more violent than white people. As you can imagine, there are lots of other variables that could lead to my personal experience.

  Nosferatu -

  Getting numbers from one person doesn't provide much basis to make a conclusion.Putting all these numbers together speaks a lot louder. I gave a lot of leaning room for it to be wrong (everyone else vs JWs), but the numbers are still high on the JW side.

  Again, no offense to you personally, but these numbers are NOT enough information to base conclusions as damning as this, yet that is what people tend to do when faced with simple, unquantified statistics. These numbers are so spread out and contain so many variables that they do NOT PROVE anything, yet when stuff like this is posted, people in general will jump to unfounded conclusions based on them. That's my gripe.
• 

  dmouse

  I've heard of quite a few JWs commiting suicide in my circuit but I'm only going to include only those people I knew fairly well.

  JWs - 2

  Non JWs - 1
• 

  shamus

  The reason why this is such a hot topic is the WTBTS calls itself the end of all despair, and promises it to all new recruits. Unfortunately, this is a big fat lie...
• 

  Sassy

  it does make them look pretty bad..

  as well as people who were suicidal while in the WTS...

  but not after they leave it.. that says a lot too