Disfellowshipping, again

by somebody 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  RedhorseWoman

  Frenchy,

  I've been giving a lot of thought to your example. I can definitely see where the dilemma comes in. After all, there is the matter of someone who is doing things that definitely bring reproach on the congregation.

  I think Spec's suggestion about counsel is very good. After that time, however, I would suggest that the person's name be removed as a member of the congregation. An announcement would be made, but there would be no obligatory shunning.

  Those who would feel uncomfortable being around this person would shun them on their own.

  My main complaint about disfellowshipping is it's use for "sins" of a minor nature, such as smoking, or fornication involving teenagers. People such as these need help and support....not shunning.

  I don't see any good that comes from obligatory shunning, other than to keep the current members from talking with someone who might give them information that the WTBTS doesn't want them to hear.

  Severing the person's ties with the congregation would show everyone that persistent wrongdoing would not be tolerated, but a non-shunning policy would ensure that those who need support could get it.
• 

  Frenchy

  After that time, however, I would suggest that the person's name be removed as a member of the congregation. An announcement would be made, but there would be no obligatory shunning.

  
  I was hoping that I wasn't the only one that thought this way, thanks, Red. To me this is the sensible course of action to take. It is not the job of the congregation to 'punish' wrongdoers, "Vengenance is mine says Jehovah". Once the person's name is removed from the congregation's membership roles the congregation's responsibility toward that person ends and he/she is now 'of the world' again and no longer our concern.
  Any others on this? Scriptures?
• 

  spectromize

  Frenchy,

  The 30 days I'm talking about means complete removal from the group or cong. The person would be informed that at the end of those days, he would be able to come and associate if he wanted to if he changed his course and in the mean time he would be strongly counseled to get professional help for his drinking and professional help as far as marriage counseling is concerned.

  The principle I take is from 1st corinthians chapter 5. There is the example of the corinthian man who had the wife of his father and the counsel Paul gave to the corinthian cong.

  Verse 2 of that chapter reads:" And are you puffed up, and did you not rather mourn, in order that the man that committed this deed should be taken away from your midts?"

  Verse 11-13 reads:"But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."

  You have to remember that persistent wrongdoers usually like to hang around with the same company. What's wrong with the wt org. arrangements is that it encourages the wrongdoer to stay in the midts of the cong. due to the fact that if they try to leave they will be labelled for good and shunned for good from their family. So what you have is the situation of a wrongdoer who would just love not to be associated in the midts of the cong. but does it anyway by just giving lip service to his worship.

  I have known individuals in the wt org. who simply worked on their reinstatement just so the family ties would be there and once reinstated never saw them set foot in the kingdom hall again.
• 

  Frenchy

  So you would still advocate shunning for at least 30 days?

  The person would be informed that at the end of those days, he would be able to come and associate if he wanted to if he changed his course

  Would you still shun him after the 30 days if he persisted in his course? BTW he's still with that woman and now he's bringing her to the meetings or at least he was before I moved here.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  somebody

  Hi all,

  I think congregations would be more clean if they all followed Jesus' teaching of not judging others. Judicial commiteess dirty the congregation. Those who participate in the judging will be judged themselves. That's what Jesus said.

  As what should be done about serious wrongdoers, well....those who are child molesters and drug pushers should be reported to the police and common sense would tell you to keep your children away from them. If I had attended a congregation that had fornicators and drunkards attending, that by no means, means that I'm going to start imitating their behavior in any way. I don't think others would either. I would want to keep encouraging them to straighten out their lives though. If they were disfellowshipped, and I couldn't talk to them without the threat of disfellowshipment myself hanging over my head, then how could I keep showing love and forgiveness like Jesus said to? The answer.... I couldn't. I wouldn't be allowed to without being judged!

  I found it completely impossible to follow Jesus' teachings in a congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. When following a teaching of Jesus' is made into a sin, there is something wrong. And yes, Carmel. I am saying that Paul taught different teachings than Jesus did. It's very obvious. Jesus said was given all power/authority over the heaven and the earth after he was resurrected, therefore , I obey him. He said not to judge. So...nothing can't justify setting up judicail committees. And nobody can deny the negative effect it has on those who get "booted out", and their families. I'd like to attend a congregation where I wouldn't have to listen to.." "oh...you can't talk to this one or that one or that one." We are trying to keep our congregation clean and they were dirtying it up!

  I'm getting worked up again here, so I'll quit now.

  It's great to read all the views on this board. Once again, I'm glad to be here.

  somebody.
• 

  spectromize

  Frenchy,

  There would be no shunning like the wt org. teaches, you would still be able to talk to him on the street or his relatives would still be able to talk to him and so on.

  If at the end of 30 days no change takes place and he wants to laugh in Jehovah's face doing as he pleases since he knows what Jehovah's law teaches on adultery and since he would persist in his wicked course and cause pain to his wife, children and relatives,friends, yes he would be stopped from associating with the rest of the group to take part in spiritual things.

  However you must remember that this individual knows Jehovah's law and blatantly rejects it, there is a diffrence from someone newly associated who doesn't know his left hand from his right.

  It is up to each individual outside the cong. to determine their own course to follow and what kind of association they will have with him without the interference of those taking the lead. But as the scriptures warn one about bad associations spoil useful habits.

  I don't like to use the word shunning or disfellowshipped since it's been such an abuse process within the org. I don't believe anyone should be labelled with those titles since it is in the heart of an individual to change if he really tries and wants to so we wouldn't want to make it more difficult for them.
• 

  Frenchy

  Thank you, Spec, but I'm still a little cloudy on a couple of things. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. You said:

  There would be no shunning like the wt org. teaches, you would still be able to talk to him on the street...If at the end of 30 days no change takes place... yes he would be stopped from associating with the rest of the group to take part in spiritual things.

  
  What do you mean by: "...he would be stopped from associating with...the group"??

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  spectromize

  Frenchy,

  I mean if he wanted to go inside a private house or place of worship where there is a meeting of spiritual things he would not be allowed. Outside those activities for example if his family wanted to have him over or if anyone else wanted to talk to him or associate there would be no shunning.