To the Defenders of George Bush and the War in Iraq (page 19)

FirstInLine

I hope you give your dollars to FARM AID, so that you support your ideals.

How would me giving to farm aid support my ideals? I was taking a capitalist position.

and, yes if I have to be labelled, I guess you would say I'm a 'socialist',

There is nothing wrong with being a socialist. Its a very humanitarian ism.

(edit) that reminds me of a scene from the Movie "Clue" where Tim Curry reveals that his secret is some of his "wife's friends were... (sniffles) socialists. (sobs) Well we all make mistakes (chipper)." I like the satire anyway.

BUT how do you justify this?

Justify what?

Realist

firstinline,

They leave out so many factors that exist in reality that you have to wonder if these so called visionaries have any education or real world experience in economics what so ever.

marx was highly educated and engels was the son of an industrialist and observed very closely the bad conditions under which their workers lived. nevertheless i agree that they were too optimistic in their assertions.

one of the main problems is (and here i for once agree with blacksheep) that competition has to be replaced with association (as engels writes). but what would cause this strong assoctiation with the community (which in ideal terms woudl comprise all of humanity). i would assume in the primitive cultures such as the indians of north america mere fight for survival held the groups together. on the other hand what about the people on tahiti and some other pacific islands? they had no threats for survival and still lived in a communistic society.

it would require psychological studies to show whether it is at all possible to teach humans (from infancy on) that possessions are not important and that working for the community is worth while. humans can be taught almost everything (see the JW trash)...so why not something useful.

talesin

yeah, you're right, FIL.

I just think it's a conceit to think our system is better than theirs, when so many in our society are suffering as well. Factory farms have destroyed the heartland, and are we really any better than the Chinese? (check out this cartoon, www.themeatrix.com it's pretty good) I think that's the link, I will check it out and edit if I have the wrong one.

Just being a little bit sarcastic, hopefully to get people to 'think', you know? Sisterhood, brotherhood, with all the world is a good thing.

Too many people who are 'peace activists' are very angry. Kinda defeats the purpose, huh? I mean, if you want peace and you are angry and judgemental, then what does that say? So I try to be peaceable, but sometimes I come off the wrong way. It's difficult when we are just writing to a forum, the words often sound harsher than I mean. IMHO

So, on that note, PEACE LOVE AND HAPPINESS TO ALL!!!!

yeah, I'm just a big mush!!!! {{{hugs to all as well}}}

talesin

Edit: the link is correct. And I will check out that flick. I love Tim Curry, he's a blast! Also love movies.

talesin

FIL

Just a note: You said, in another discussion, I think, that you are thinking of being a mercenary.

I had a boyfriend for several years, who was one of the Airborne. 82nd, Silent Death Company. You know, the famous ones who invented the saying "yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no harm, for I am the meanest SOB in the valley".

Trust me, you do not want to do this. It will destroy your soul, as it did his.

just a thought,,,from someone 'who knows' the after-effects of war,,,

tal

FirstInLine

Realist,

it would require psychological studies to show whether it is at all possible to teach humans (from infancy on) that possessions are not important and that working for the community is worth while. humans can be taught almost everything (see the JW trash)...so why not something useful.

This is a good idea regardless, not just for trying to grow communists. We have become IMO too consumeristic (materialistic) so such actions would be a good idea. We would probably pollute less and live happier lives, or at least that generation would.

talesin,

I had a boyfriend for several years, who was one of the Airborne. 82nd, Silent Death Company. You know, the famous ones who invented the saying "yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no harm, for I am the meanest SOB in the valley".
Trust me, you do not want to do this. It will destroy your soul, as it did his.

just a thought,,,from someone 'who knows' the after-effects of war,,,

I am not interested in going to war unless there is a draft on. Like I said I want to get paid. $1000 a day IMO is worth it and it isnt so much combat as it is a security detail. Coincidentally, I am the meanest SOB in 10 valleys.

SixofNine

You can probably do better than 1k per day in Iraq right now FIL.

Times a wastin' young man, get your mean SOB ass on a plane post-haste!

blacksheep

Realist: I forgot the "no possessions" piece in Lennon's song. That particular part never seemed to me to stand out, and since it's been oft quoted and oft sung by people who are clearly not communist, I didn't see the song as some communist promotion.

it would require psychological studies to show whether it is at all possible to teach humans (from infancy on) that possessions are not important and that working for the community is worth while. humans can be taught almost everything (see the JW trash)...so why not something useful.

And here's the rub: you obviously are making an assumption that it is the IDEAL to "teach humans (from infancy on) that possessions are not important." Exactly WHY are you suggesting humans should be TAUGHT this? Are you assuming you know the exact RIGHT way humans should behave? Who, exactly, made up those rules for you? I don't care if it IS possible to teach humans (from infancy) that possessions are not important, anymore than I care to find out if it's possible to teach humans from infancy to believe family is not important. Sounds like some JW throwback. You've got the right way to live, and the fundamental question is, how do you convice/brainwash others?

Beyond that, there are plenty of people who have lots of possessions who "contribute to the greater good." Having possessions and contributing to the greater good of the community are certainly not mutually exclusive.

blacksheep

Yes, society does evolve, doesn't it. The naked facts are that in industrialized, western nations people have a much higher quality of life

yes but they are not happier. believe it or not the happiest people live in poor societies.

Ah, do reveal the "polls" you must possess to measure "happiness" among nations. THAT should be interesting. (Also curious as to why impovrished people risk their lives to immigrate to the US illegally. Someone obviously hasn't told them they are happy.

blacksheep

on the other hand what about the people on tahiti and some other pacific islands? they had no threats for survival and still lived in a communistic society.

And the operative word here is "lived." If their societies were so happy and fulfilling, it wouldn't have evolved to what is is today.

dubla

simon-

from my post:

ive proven you wrong on specific points, such as "we supplied the gas" for example, and youve always tucked tail and ran whenever faced with solid evidence against your claims.

thank you for once again proving my point.

aa

To the Defenders of George Bush and the War in Iraq

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