Another JW Questions 1914 At The Meeting!!! (page 4)

Atlantic

My own feeling re:1914 is that were they not able to point to the start of WW1 as the beginning of the last days it would have been discarded along with 1844, 1874, 1925 etc.

minimus

WELCOME ZUGZ and as usual, Nathan----you're right on!

Aguest--- That is true . The only difference in the way they conduct the public discourse is that they don't pass a collection plate around but will mention the contribution box as often as they can .

outbutnotdown

Atlantic makes a good point.... and one that I have felt for a long time..... they got lucky that a "great War" was started the same year that they predicted it for the third + time.

Isn't it sad that they always use tragedies of human life to accentuate even more in their own minds their delusional thinking?

I heard a talk by a brother in 2001 about 9/11 and how it was a "great proof that we are living in the last days". Woohoo..... WONDERFUL!!!!! Makes me want to jump for joy that a few thousand people were killed by a few psychotic freaks. Doesn't everybody here want to worship a GOD like that?

Brad

RR

So, when you say "missing" do you suggest foul play? Hmmmmmm ....

heathen

Well , when you're dealing with invisibility I guess it's easy to change the dates since the only evidence are the signs that jesus gave in Mathew of nation rising against nation ........... yadda yadda . Of course the earth quakes mentioned don't neccessarily mean the earth shaking and so on ....................

shamus

The truth shall set you free! ]

Woo hoo!!!

gumby

My mother told me that a regular pioneer in his 60's from a nearby Hall questioned how we could be sure 1914 was the date Christ was enthroned as king of the kingdom.

I'm surprised your mother told you something such as this knowing you have "fallen away" yourself. Dubs don't usually expound on the negative to other doubting/fading dubs. Maybe your mom has some questions of her own. I wonder why she mentioned this to you........as if you would be concerned another witness is doubting? Ya never know.

Gumby

zugzwang

I posted on this topic already but I hadn't figured out how to format it properly yet so I am going to try again so it will be easier to read. Here goes:

How could that brother doubt the WTS? After all they have never been wrong before:

"In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved."- 1889, Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 2 p. 98-99

"Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D....and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D."- 1897, Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 4 p. 621

"Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity."- 1917, The Finished Mystery p. 485

"The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the 'time of the end' began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (WT March 1, 1922)

Apparently those facts were disputable because later the same organization that presented these facts changed the dates involved.

"Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...." (1920, Millions Now Living Will Never Die p. 89-90)

The whole basis of the statement "millions now living will never die" (which the WTS still proudly uses) was based upon the teaching of the WTS that the end was going to occur in 1925. Notice how the writer says "we may confidently expect." Notice a similar statement in the WT January 1, 1997 p. 11: "In the early 1920?s, a featured public talk presented by Jehovah?s Witnesses was entitled 'Millions Now Living Will Never Die.' This may have reflected overoptimism at that time. But today that statement can be made with full confidence." The fact that a woefully false and inaccurate statement was made is glossed over by saying it was mearly "overoptimism." In addition, the author makes the same mistake that Rutherford made back in the 1920's. Just as in the early 1920's they were sure they could "confidently expect" something that didn't happen, so too in the 1997 article reference is made to having "full confidence." How can I, or anyone else, have "full confidence" in a statement made by an organization that made the same statement 75 years earlier that turned out to be completely wrong? Is the WTS more confident now than it was back then? How could they be, notice just how confident they were back then in this next quotation.

"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (WT May 15, 1922)

It is difficult to see how they could say that this was merely "overoptimism." There was no question, "no doubt whatever," in fact they stated that "the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal. . .beyond any possibility of erasure." They were so confident that they said it would occur "probably in the fall." How much more confident or specific could they have been? They were to have as much confidence in 1925 as in 1914. Since obviously nothing happened in 1925 what does that tell us about 1914? For the WTS to say that this was merely "overoptimism" is downright deceitful!

"This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct...."- WT July 15, 1922 p. 217

"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." (WT September 1, 1922 p. 262)

Again, if 1925 is even more certain than 1914, and obviously nothing happened in 1925, what does that tell us about 1914?

"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (WT April 1, 1923 p. 106)

This shows that strength of conviction and strong belief don't make something true. The year 1925 was not "definitely settled by the scriptures" and no amount of insisting that it was would make it so. It was truly presumptuous for the WTS to say that they knew more than Noah.

"Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874." (WT January 1, 1924 p. 5)

Today anyone who has doubt about the teachings of the WTS is also looked down upon just as is being encouraged here. Notice this statement was made in 1924. Even as late as 1929 the WTS still taught that Christ's return was in 1874 rather than 1914. Today if you or I taught this teaching, for which there was "not the slightest room for doubt," we would be charged with spreading apostate teachings.

"Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned to France on October 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly , yet graphically described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet's own words, the beginning of "the time of the end."- 1927, Creation p. 293

"The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D. This proof is specifically set out in the booklet entitled Our Lord's Return." (1929, Prophecy p. 65, 66)

Here is a statement from 1929 showing that 1874 was still held to be the date of Christ's second presence long after 1914 had passed.

"... the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ dates from about 1875."- WT October 15, 1930 p. 308

All of these points are part of my letter of disassociation. I haven't sent it in yet, don't know if I ever will. I don't feel that I need to, but it is still good to go over these things from time to time to remind myself of just how screwed up the WTS is. I hope this turns out better this time when I post it.

zugzwang

Yeah for me, I figured it out. Life's simple joys!

I feel like I should somebody and tell them I deserve .

Another JW Questions 1914 At The Meeting!!!

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