Prophecy debunked in one sentence (page 2)

Corvin

Well, think about it. If you had the power to look at what your life will be like 15 years from now, do you honestly think your life would end up that way? Wouldn't the very fact that you know how things would turn out change how you acted in the meantime, thus altering the vision you had?

Not so. You shape your future everytime you make a decision and take an action. Every action is a cause set in motion. A person can stop and take a look at where they are currently, ask themselves what the next five or ten years will be like if they never make any new decisions, any major decisions. If you always do what you have always done, you always have what you always had. In 10 years you will be exactly where you are today and have pretty much an unaltered life if you fail to make new and better decisions.

Just think tho, if you could look into the future and see where you would be if you made certain decisions or took a specific set of actions, would it not be a bit easier to get where you want to go? Boy o boy! The mistakes and pitfalls you could avoid as a result of seeing what will be if you were to take a certain action! What a difference you could make in other people's lives!

Corvin

simwitness

The particular theory or "paradox" that you are refferring to is called "schrodinger's cat"... basically it states that you cannot observe anything without somehow affecting that which you observe...

"If you put a cat in a box that you cannot see into or hear (observe), and release a poison... does the cat die? How do you prove it?" (very loosely paraphrased, I hope you get the idea)

In essence, I agree with you, that you cannot "see" the future without somehow changing it... either intentionally or not.

franklin J

good post, Bradley ( er, sorry for that "quick one" comment---you did set that one up!)

I tend to agree with Scully on this. We have it within our power to shape our future. We see what we want to accomplish and we go after it and do what has to be done to make it happen. It worked for me.

to quote an old saying " be very careful what you wish for, because dreams do come true"

czarofmischief

Can't defend prophecy. Not even going to try. I don't worry about it.

My philosophy is, If god wants to do something, he will. And there's not a damn thing I can do about it. If he wants to leave a lot up to human free will, how the hell could I tell the difference?

The Muslim concept of spiritual peace is just submission to the will of God. They (some) believe that all is predetermined. But all of them agree on the need to spiritually relax and let the power of God move them to works of charity, etc. They have more in common with Christianity than the "sanctimonious" among them realize or are willing to admit.

CZAR

logansrun

Corvin

You shape your future everytime you make a decision and take an action.

You help shape your future evertime you make a decision and take an action. I agree.

A person can stop and take a look at where they are currently, ask themselves what the next five or ten years will be like if they never make any new decisions, any major decisions. If you always do what you have always done, you always have what you always had. In 10 years you will be exactly where you are today and have pretty much an unaltered life if you fail to make new and better decisions.

If all other factors are constant this would be true, but such is not the case. Let's say I'm in a dead-end job that I hate and I just continue to run the treadmill of "same old, same old." I don't do anything differently and then my company goes under, or my rich uncle dies and leaves me millions, or I develop leukemia, etc... I understand where your point from a psychological angle (and I agree with you), but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about supernatural knowledge, ie, prophecy.

Just think tho, if you could look into the future and see where you would be if you made certain decisions or took a specific set of actions, would it not be a bit easier to get where you want to go? Boy o boy! The mistakes and pitfalls you could avoid as a result of seeing what will be if you were to take a certain action! What a difference you could make in other people's lives!

But seeing into the future would actually cause you to take different actions (even if you tried not to) and an entirely different cascade of contingencies would develop which would be different from what you saw. Prophecy just doesn't make any logical sense at all.

B.

logansrun

I wouldn't call it prophecy, exactly. It's more like good planning and goal-oriented behaviour. But I saw a goal in my future and chose the outcome I wanted. I did what I had to do to get there, so my "prophecy" was fulfilled... it wasn't the least bit negated.

Um, yes Scully that's not what I'm talking about.

Kriky. You've inspired me to want to got to an Anthony Robbins conference.

B.

LittleToe

Bradley:
Your philosophy makes a few assumptions, for example:

I agree, although to say it is "predetermined" implies a time before "the past, present and future" which, of course, is nonsensical. Let's just say it's all determined all at once. Pass the Advil.

Nonesensical?
Why?
When did time begin?
How do you define it?
Does it bend and warp, as some scientific theories and explanations seem to indicate?

IMHO at some point the clock started ticking. What existed before that?
Anything? Nothing?

ball.

Well, the bible does say God knows the "beginning and the end", and seeing as scientists now say they know how the universe began and how it ends, can you not apply the laws of physics to extrapolate the events in between those two points?

logansrun

LT,

Nonesensical?
Why?

Time is dependent on space, this is why physicists talk of "space-time." Since space -- our universe -- had a beginning, time also had a beginning. It is nonsensical to talk of a time before time. It's like asking "what happened in 2004 before the year 2004?" (I didn't originate this thought. I pulled it from a scientist you might have heard of -- Sir Stephen Hawking)

When did time begin?

See above.

How do you define it?
Does it bend and warp, as some scientific theories and explanations seem to indicate?

Yes, as both scientific theories and empirical evidence indicate.

Realist

Well, think about it. If you had the power to look at what your life will be like 15 years from now, do you honestly think your life would end up that way? Wouldn't the very fact that you know how things would turn out change how you acted in the meantime, thus altering the vision you had?

no not if the vision includes your reactions to the knowledge :) think about the greek mythology stories. the kings always got something prophecised which became true ONLY because they knew what would happen. conclusion: you cannot escape your destiny.

Prophecy debunked in one sentence

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