Possible Economic Defeat of the Watchtower

by metatron 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  ozziepost

  G'day metatron,

  I always look out for your posts and, as usual, some interesting points have been made by you and others on this thread. A couple of points:

  Since contributions have sagged so badly in recent years, it leaves them vunerable to many different factors.

  Do we know this for sure? Evidence? I'd be very interested.

  the economic slide of the organization could be more effective than any other argument they could make.

  Absolutely! But even then 'they'd' paint it with the gloss of persecution, time of the end, etc etc

  Cheers, Ozzie
• 

  jws

  While the signs of their decline are clearly visible to us, the WBTS has always managed to put a spin on it that leaves most believers thinking that these changes are wonderful new ways that geniuses in New York have figured out and that these changes will benefit everyone.

  When they went to the literature donations, how many JWs knew it was because of the taxation issue? How many instead thought that it was a better way to open up literature to people who might not be able to afford it? When they discontinued meals at assemblies, how many thought it was to free up kitchen staff so that they could concentrate on the program?

  There's always a spin that a lot of the JWs will buy. I know my dad does.

  If you ask me, they probably made a mistake with the literature on the donation basis. To avoid a book tax, they cut out how much of their business? Instead, have them charge a little extra (what? 5%? 10%?) and keep the money rolling in. Then you wouldn't lose money when a cong didn't donate enough for the literature. You wouldn't have to discontinue subscriptions which brought in guaranteed money in advance. People would know how much everything costs and pay it. Instead, their publishing business is probably down 25%? 50%? Instead of a 5 or 10% increase in costs, they lose a lot more.

  As for their financial state? Running an operation that big requires lots of it, although sweatshop wages and volunteers don't hurt. In Franzs book, he said the society has lots of money that has been accumulated over the years. People donating estates, investments, etc. There are no doubt lots of KHs that still owe the society for building loans. That's steady revenue coming in.

  I don't know whether they're hurting bad, or whether profits are moderately down and they're just aggresively cost-cutting. Don't know why. After all, Armageddon is just around the corner. Surely they have enough assets to last until then...
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  garybuss

  The Watch Tower Corporation relies on goodwill and happy customers for donations while they over solicit, over correct, over manage, over work, and generally aggravate the Witness people who are . . . their ONLY customers. From a business standpoint, this does not make a lot of sense.
  
  They kick out or force out so many of us who find support and don't come back that the shunning policy is backfiring on them. The Witness family members of shunning victims are not all privately in agreement with the corporation management. This corporation can not afford a resisting undercurrent and they are working hard to create just that. GaryB
  
  
  
  
  
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  drawcad_1

  I have seen the spin control that they put on all of their money saving ventures. When their rags went from a subscription to picking them up at the hall, to save on postage, everyone said that it was getting ready for the time when the system broke down and the postal system wouldn?t work. The hardliners will look for the pearl in the pile of manure, and not realize that things are going bad.

  A constant subject on this board at the beginning of the year centers on the annual statistics and how they are obviously cooking the books. I have seen comments on this board that point out manipulations in attendance that are so easily accepted at the meetings. I would not doubt that this year will show another marginal increase in attendance, probably not as many at the memorial, and a big increase in those hours. But, this will cover the fact that the average witness family who attends meetings (about 50%) will give about $40 a month.

  I have noticed that at conventions and assemblies that we are almost stepped through the process of donating. I do not want to hear the story about the poor woman in the bible who gave everything that she could and this meant more than the rich man who just gave what was expected.
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  Mary

  they probably made a mistake with the literature on the donation basis. To avoid a book tax, they cut out how much of their business? Instead, have them charge a little extra (what? 5%? 10%?) and keep the money rolling in.

  That's my opinion exactly. From a business point of view, it was a stupid, irresponsible move changing it to a purely "donation" basis. Who cares if there's a tax on 50 cent magazines? Just add the damn tax into the price and send the government their cut. Their stubborn attitute of "no earthly organization is going to tell US what to do", backfired big time on them and I'm sure they realize that now. However, if they go back to where you have to pay for the magazines, everyone will wonder what the hell is going on.

  Another dumb move on their part was getting rid of the meals at the assemblies. As far as I know, this was their bread and butter when it came to covering costs for the Assemblies. The food was bought at wholesale,, prepared for free and the charges for cooked meals were reasonable. I always remember when they read the accounts off at the end of the assemblies, that there was ALWAYS a surplus. Not anymore.....now, thanks to their insane decisions to ax the meal program, there's always a deficit at the end of each assembly. They can't even fix the problem now because none of the assembly halls are built with kitchens!!

  Everything that's happening to them now is their own damn fault. They're too arrogant, too self-centered and too controlling and it's finally coming home to roost.
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  ColdRedRain

  I hate to burst everybody's bubble, but you have to realise that the WTBS owns stock in many companies, so even if they lose money from donations, they will gain it back from their stock.
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  franklin J

  the value of the New York Brooklyn real estate alone is a staggering amount of cash. We are talkiing over Billion dollars in real estate which most likely has NO MORTGAGE and our religious friends pay no tax. The Watchtower Society is not going to be washed up any time soon
• 

  ozziepost

  the WTBS owns stock in many companies, so even if they lose money from donations, they will gain it back from their stock

  That's a lot of stock!

  Details?
• 

  Big Tex

  I don't know. Don't get me wrong, I wish they were in financial difficulties but I'm not so sure. And they will certainly be floating around 50 years from now, if not longer. Are contributions down? Are the Great Unwashed suspicious?

  I tend to doubt it, just based on our own experiences. How long did we ourselves turn a blind eye to the reality of what WTS really is. The power of self-delusion and living in denial is tremendous. And if the majority are still in denial, albeit robotically going through the motions, money is still coming in. Consider this too, how many elderly Witnesses are there who have willed money from their estate to WTS?

  I hope they are in economic troubles, that's the only way change is ever going to come, but right now I'm from Missouri on this one.
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  cruzanheart

  The Society reminds me of my mother. For years she bleated and whined about how poor she and Dad were, when they were actually sitting on about $250,000. In fact, she whined so much once that a few well-meaning Witnesses took up a collection and gave it to her. I think it helped that she always wore the same threadbare clothes and looked the part of a poor, humble church mouse.

  The Society probably cut a deal to sell the Furman Street building for between $50 and $100 million, yet they are saying *gasp* that it will cost $50 million to prepare the printing plant, or whatever it is, in Wallkill, so PLEEEEEEEEEZ send donations! I think they are just completely power and money hungry now, and they have begging down to an art. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that there are some Swiss bank accounts out there with GB names on them, though I don't think this is the work of one man or even several. Seems like a collective business plan. Are we sure Donald Trump isn't a secret member of the GB?

  YOU'RE FIRED!

  Nina