Did the second-class status of JW women ever bother you? Does it now?

by True North 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • True North
    True North

    If the JW organization were considered a normal business operating without the protections of being a religion, it obviously would have to make some big changes in order to avoid being sued out of existence for sex discrimination.

    I wasn't raised to think that women should be relegated to second class status or that they should have less opportunities than men or be relegated to a limited set of life roles. However, when I became a JW, I freely accepted all the sexist nonsense that came with the territory without ever being bothered by it.

    Thankfully, I'm over that now and back to having my original, decent attitudes and beliefs regarding women's equality. However, it just seems so strange to me that while I was a JW I could so easily suppress my former views and adopt new ones that I now, once again, find reprehensible.

    How about you. Did the status of JW women ever bother you when you were in the org? Does it bother you now? Do female JWs tend to view this differently? If you had daughters, did it ever trouble you that they couldn't have equal status?

  • itsallgoodnow
    itsallgoodnow

    Personally, I was glad I couldn't be called on to give a prayer and didn't need to be bothered to do (most) congregational duties (only the glorified toilet scrubbing for me!). But I do resent their expectation that women be passive and submissive. No, wait a minute.... I was NOT resentful, in fact, I was GRATEFUL .... with a HUMBLE attitude !!!!

    This hilarious bit of text is from the March 15, 2004 watchtower study article...

    Faithful anointed Christian women did not resent that only Christian men were assigned to teach in the congregation. (1 Corinthians 14:34,35). Rather, they were happy to benefit from the hard work of male members of the congregation (only the ones with "scriptural qualifications"?) and were grateful for the privileges open to women (why can women clean toilets but not carry microphones?), including that of bringing glad tidings to others. Zealous anointed sisters today manifest the same humble attitude, whether the appointed elders are of the anointed or not.

    (the snarky comments in their are Blondie's).

  • undercover
    undercover

    Outside of not being allowed to be an elder or have main meeting parts, women were treated fairly in my years of being a JW. The one weird thing was the head-covering when a woman conducted meetings for service or prayed outloud. Outside of that, women were never looked down on as inferior or not as smart. In fact, women have been used in some pretty good positions in the quick builds and assembly hall builds. The older sisters were treasured in the halls that I attended. People sought out their viewpoint and advice. Maybe the area where I grew up appreciated women in general more, I don't know. Maybe I was lucky in the halls I attended, again, I don't know.

    If you want to blame something on the secondary status of women in religion, blame the Bible. It all started there.

    Edited:

    1 Corinthians 14:34

    "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says."

    It's not just the JWs. Religions of all kinds have taken scriptures like this one and used it to keep men in superior positions. I don't think the JWs(as a whole) treat women badly outside of not letting them have positions inside the church.

  • slipnslidemaster
    slipnslidemaster

    I'm not sure if I have a thought on your topic, but from where I'm standing there is NOTHING second class about itsallgoodnow!

    Welcome to the board all of you!

  • Insomniac
    Insomniac

    In my experience, women were treated very differently from men. When I asked why single women were not welcome to join Bethel, I was told by an elder that women were a temptation to snare the young men. Apparently the fact that these young men were lacking in self-control was not an issue.

    Face it, women can't be elders, ms's, do's, co's, members of the governing body, can't conduct meetings, can't pray without a demeaning hankie on their heads, can't work the literature counter, can't handle the mikes, can't give talks, nothing!

    I never married in the "truth" because I could never agree to be in subjection to another human being. I resented it then, and I resent it now.

  • itsallgoodnow
    itsallgoodnow

    aw thanks, slipnslide

  • Brother Beyond
    Brother Beyond

    YES!!

    I guess when I was in, I just took it for granted but now it seems to be madness that JW women did by far the majority of the preaching work, yet could not receive privaleges!!

    BB

  • maxwell
    maxwell

    No it didn't bother me. This post seems to be more about women's position in the congregation or the organization, but I'll also comment on their position in the home.

    I believed what the bible said and the bible says wives are to be submissive and there's that scripture in Timothy that says women are to be quiet and not to teach. JW aren't the only ones to interpret those scriptures literally. I remember women from Southern Baptist churches coming on the news and bragging in a sort of way about how proud they were to be submissive to their husband and obey everything he said because that is what the "Lawd" says after attending one of their conventions. And then there are the Muslim religions and their teachings about women.

    Another thing to remember is that the bible says that husbands are to be heads of their wives just as christ is head of the congregation. So husbands were suppose to follow christ's example. If it was pleasant to be under christ's headship, then, in theory, it was supposed to be pleasant to be under men who were executing their headship just like Christ. That was part of JW interpretation. Of course, in reality this situation never existed.

    I was raised from birth a JW. My parents bought fully into this. If my mom felt repressed by this arrangement, I never saw it. One thing my father told me was whenever you are in charge of or leading other people, you should always give in to their preferences as long as their preferences are not wrong even if you as the leader prefer things another way. In other words, the only time you exercise your headship, leadership or authority is when those you are leading are about to do something wrong. I also remember early marriage advice that I should put up with a woman's irrational behavior because that was a woman's way. So no the second-class status of JW women did not bother me because I did not see it that way in many situations and because I believed what the bible said. No they can't give talks, be elders, etc. But in the home, proper exercise of headship, according to their teachings and counsel I received, seemed to give the woman most of the power in end.

    Does it bother me now? Not really. JW are a religion and not a career or job, despite JW insistance to the contrary about pioneering. I don't choose to follow any religion so what they do is of little concern to me. Some women choose to follow JW religion and some choose to follow other religions with second-class woman teachings and some even choose to follow the 'woman is second to man' rules of the religion. Others choose to follow the religion and ignore the second-class woman rules. Other women choose not to be involved with any religion having any kind of second-class woman view. (Then there are those who are into BDSM Oh that's another topic. ) Now, at home, I don't assume any headship duties. Sometimes I go with my own preferences and while trying to be aware of the differences between a man and a woman, I don't make any excuses (e.g. a woman's viscissitudes (sp) or that time of the month) for childish behavior. If a man or a woman insists on acting like a child because they are upset about something, either I wait till they can think calmly and rationally or I move on. I have been exposed to plenty of intelligent, strong and strong-willed women outside and even inside the JW's so I know that women are not inferior in any way. The second-class woman view simply will not hold up when operating on the job or in society in general these days. I've seen women blow the socks off men in physical, mental and creative occupations. So I didn't really have a big change in my mind to make regarding women in general when I left the JW's.

  • jwbot
    jwbot

    It bothered me growing up. Even as a little girl I did not understand why so many distinctions were made. As an adult female in college with a great job, and very knowledgeable about computers...I fail to understand why women in the religion (and other religions) follow this. Why would an all-knowing God create humans, but half of them be considered less, or the servants to the other half? What kind of God is that??? Well its not my belief. It makes me feel so good that I am more educated and paid better than the JW men I grew up with that told me I should not go to college and just marry a guy that will take care of me. pfft.

  • Tulsi Das
    Tulsi Das

    It bothered me a great deal. There were so many talented sisters who were kept on the sidelines simply because of their gender. It never failed to amaze me that sisters did the majority of the preaching work - finding interested ones & doing all the teaching of these ones - but those abilities were stopped the minute they crossed the threshold of the KH. Tell me again why a sister couldn't carry a microphone, hand out territory cards, hand out literature, serve as an attendant? How is that considered "teaching"? Many sisters could run circles around the brothers when it came to public speaking. Just think - if they allowed sisters to serve in the role of ministerial servants how much better a congregation could operate & how the burden could be more evenly spread.

    You have to wonder - the minute an interested woman (esp. one with a college education or professional career) saw that women had to be in total subjection to the men & had nothing to do with the running of a congregation how that may have killed any desire to join.

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