Is the Bible Just B.S.?

by shamus 125 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Gyles:
    LOLOL

    I thought I'd throw "ineffable" in there for a bit of fun, and as a nice change from "divine", which I often use.
    Darn: Gyles 24 - Ross 23
    LOL

    If someone was distorting what you had said and doing bad things yet insisting that Ross said it was okay to do them, you'd likely take action.

    Actually I've been in exactly that position and done nothing about it, because regardless of what someone may say or write about me, my course of "actions" are what count. If folks really want to know what I said or did, without pre-judging me, then they'll hopefully ask me directly. If they don't, then they are hardly people I want to surround myself with. I certainly hope that on balance I've not been too dire a fellow.
    Why did Paul say that he rejoiced however Christ was preached (Phil.1:18)?

    It seems that your example of "willow bark" did have benefits, though the accompanying rituals proved irrelevant (a little bit like how I approach the concept of religion). Was that an intentional own-goal? Can I level the scores again?

    Regarding "beliefs" usefulness, I can declare that (which I beleive) to be useful to me. Whether or not it is of use to another, is a different matter. Let the buyer beware.

    Regarding the "image of God", isn't that what the Genesis story is supposed to be about? Man's fall from image-hood?
    You and I are possibly as far away from being like "God" as it's possible to become - polar opposites. Or are we?
    We look through a hazy mirror, so whilst I'd agree with the statement "as above, so below", we are dealing with shadows and reverses, IMHO.
    Further, what represented "God" below, in the shadow of things? Was it not Christ?
    If so, then I suspect he didn't do a bad job, all things accounted for.

    Yup, but you're not god, you're Ross, and the second it looked like people were going to suffer you'd rethink your actions. Why is god different?

    Because "God" may well be everywhere, experiencing it all, having laid out the entire scope of "time" within a single teardrop in eternity (poetic, huh? - I just felt inspired to think that one up ).

    Regarding parenthood, btw, that's my nephew not my son. We never had any kids (thank gawd!!!)
    On that point, though, doesn't that just re-emphasise the point I've made many times?
    It's about a living relationship, not head-knowledge, not book learning, not logic, not "being good", not works, etc., etc., etc..

    For a human example; why does a child believe their parent over their peers (even if their parent is actually wrong)? Is it not because of the qualitative nature of their relationship? Unfortunately, that often even extends to those children of abusive parents, however that tendancy is usually evident.
    My point being that if we take the assumption (yes, assumption - I'm conceding some logic here) that "God" is omniscient then there must be some reason for why things happen, even if it eludes us as to what it is, and regardless of the consequences on our lives.

    (btw, are you going by the FMZ definition of ineffable? )

  • FMZ
    FMZ
    (btw, are you going by the FMZ definition of ineffable? )

    Hey, what can I say. I'm a progressive thinker. (i.e. it takes a while for me to make progress, you know that LT)

    FMZ

  • stillconcerned
    stillconcerned

    i think Josh McDowell does a pretty good job of laying out the arguments, at least as to Jesus' existance and identity (liar, lunatic or the real deal) in 'More than a Carpenter". Get it in most bookstores or over the net... If you can't find it and are interested I'll lend my copy. Kimberlee d.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy
    If, indeed, life has been put in your heart (though the heart is treacherous) I believe that a spirit-led life is best (having had the necessary law - of love - written on your heart).

    The heart is treacherous?

    But LT...the heart is nothing more then a muscle!

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    But it goes boom-de-de-boom,de-de-boom-de-de-boom,de-de-boom-de-de-boom-boom-bop!!!
    And then, "th-th-th-th-th-th-th-th-that's all folks!".

    The grim reaper'll get ya in the end!

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Farkel,

    People of faith should not make the mistake of trying to rationalize it or even trying to explain it with any sort of argument that involves logic.

    Yep, I think you have a point ... Well, I suppose there could be a level of logic that could be applied, but it is very limited if at all ... rather "faith" is something unique to each individual and best left to each person to sort out for themselves. I still hold to faith in God and Christ, but beyond that, I have little to say to try and convince anyone of anything.

    Is God so stupid or weak that he couldn't keep his OWN BOOK from corruption?

    I think that one of the worst assumptions many Christians and non-Christians make is that the Bible is the Word of God, His book, His notes dictated to human writers who served as little more than glorified secretaries.

    Rather, the Bible as we know it, is a compilation of books that the Roman Catholic Church holds as inspired. What happened to the Bible collection could be likened to what might happen some day 500 years from now if some group found a set of Watchtower publications and declared them inspired.

    Well, okay, I am taking this to an extreme ... but I see the Bible as a human work that contains what humans believe about God, what they think God may have said, and a history of Israel, its bloody wars, and the development of early Christianity ... and in the Bible one may find things that are inspiring, leading to faith in Christ.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Hi Ross,

    Actually I've been in exactly that position and done nothing about it, because regardless of what someone may say or write about me, my course of "actions" are what count.

    Yes, but, a/ you are not all powerful, and b/ a course of INaction may be just as telling - in this case either being indicative of not being concerned or not actually existing.

    If folks really want to know what I said or did, without pre-judging me, then they'll hopefully ask me directly.

    Yes, well, lots of people try to ask god and don't feel they get a reply. Thgose that do 'get' a reply often get different ones (funnily enough usually ones in line with their enculturation). His number's unlisted and there's a load of contradictory self-proclaimed spokespeople.

    If they don't, then they are hardly people I want to surround myself with.

    This is, in context of our discussion, god making it human's fault. Unconvincing argument for an all-powerful entity (unless of course you are arguing about your personal and non-Biblical beliefs in a greater spirituality).

    I certainly hope that on balance I've not been too dire a fellow.

    You're a perfectly splendid chap, but you're not the sovreign lord of the Universe, not unless I am very much mistaken.

    Why did Paul say that he rejoiced however Christ was preached

    Because he was a git? He ALSO said women shouldn't teach, I've never had much regard for the misogynistic sod. If I could make the argument work I'd try to make out Jesus meant Paul''s head when he said 'on this rock...'.

    Because "God" may well be everywhere, experiencing it all, having laid out the entire scope of "time" within a single teardrop in eternity (poetic, huh? - I just felt inspired to think that one up ).

    Mmm... poetic, yeah, well... reasonable excuse for suffering/uncertainty? No; such qualities would make it even more unreasonable as god would be continuoously aware of every moment of grief or existensial doubt caused by its actions throughout the spread of time (if the Bible's words about 'him' being desirous that all possible are saved are true, which of course is unlikely as we both know the Bible's no more holy than the Mothercare catalogue or the Bhagadvavita).

    My point is that any belief structure with assumptions at the very base of it is no more reliable than that initial assumption.

    Obviously all belief structures, even godless mechanistic ones, contain assumptions, but your assumption that god is omniscient and that there is therefore a reason even if we don't get it allows far more camels to be swallowed than I can personally cope with.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Gyles:

    You're a perfectly splendid chap, but you're not the sovreign lord of the Universe, not unless I am very much mistaken.

    Shhhhhhh!!! We're on a seventy year vacation (again) and didn't want to tell anyone! Seems that every time a vacation time comes up, some b*st*rd starts a war and blames it on us!

    If I could make the argument work I'd try to make out Jesus meant Paul''s head when he said 'on this rock...'.

    Oh, come, come, now. That's an easy position to defend

    My point is that any belief structure with assumptions at the very base of it is no more reliable than that initial assumption.

    Agreed, and so the scientific method (so far as it can be applied to the incorporeal) begins.
    This comes back to my opinion that the bible is full of examples of people trying to describe their experience with what they interpreted as the "divine".
    I'm not going to argue for the correctness of their conclusions, but I will argue for their candor.

    PS: What have you got against camels, besides them being hairy biting brutes, with no sense of humour?

  • FMZ
    FMZ
    PS: What have you got against camels, besides them being hairy biting brutes, with no sense of humour?

    I prefer llamas.

    FMZ

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Not I - they spit, too!!!

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