As a result of my fading from the JW religion, I have taken an interest in the Mormon religion. Personally I think mormonisim is a bigger con than the JW religion. With all knowledge I've been acquiring, I was interested to find out what the followers of the Mormon religion knew about the churches history. So I stopped some Mormon missionaries on the street. I have to say I was quite surprised about what the knew of the churches past and the colourful nature of its founder. I told them about been a JW, and to my surprise found the two religions very similar although theologically quite different. After we finished the conversation I couldn't help but think how more open and transparent they are.
I questioned some Mormons today
by joe134cd 10 Replies latest jw experiences
-
-
Trailer Park Pioneer
joe, the Mormons encourage their members to be highly functional in the World and even donate to charity and be highly involved with their communties.
Two of my doctors are Mormons, when was the last time you meet a doctor who was raised a Jehovah's Witness? There are a few doctors who joined the Watchtower after being told half-truths how we view education but Mormons are proud to get their kids educated.
Mormons are having problems with the Internet like other groups, kids are asking their parents questions about Joseph Smith, B. Young and their views on different races. Mormon kids don't get expelled for against questions, they are not punished because they want answers why their leaders acted poorly and now the Mormon Church is trying to get ahead of their questions by hiring public relations firms to address the concerns instead of blowing off, ignoring their kids concerns and questions. When have JWs ever been honest about their past, they hide, they lie and prevarication is their key weapon against truth!
The Watchtower is so arrogant your not allowed to ask questions, your not allowed to "Keep Testing (Rev 2:1-4) or prove your in the Truth by aligning the Watchtower's teaching with the Bible. The Mormons don't claim to follow the Bible totally, they have been honest by stating the Book of Mormon has a higher rank. These college kids are asking plenty of questions, don't think their blinded like JWs because they are fighting against a past as bad as the JWs and dealing with it, not kicking people out for wanting to know the truth about their Past!
-
OnTheWayOut
Yes, I tend to agree that it is a bigger con. The Mormons have managed to become more mainstream in appearance, giving more reasons to stay for members. With encouraging college and success and celebrating Christmas, Mormons are more normal seeming. At the same time, magic underwear, baptism of the dead, a more transparent understanding of their con-man beginning makes them more bizarre.
I would think that common knowledge of DNA disproving their "lost tribes of Israel in America" doctrine and modern understanding of Egyptian hyroglyphics showing their writings as total scams from Joseph Smith would be enough to destroy the cult. But I also would think failed predictions and changed doctrines such as "generation" would destroy the JW cult.
In comparison, JW's seem to know nothing of their past or have bigger misconceptions. It doesn't seem to matter.
-
TerryWalstrom
Our life is the time we spend doing something.
The quality of our life is determined by how actively we improve things.
A good life, well-lived is the goal--in the long run.
It stands to reason, wasting our time amounts to wasting opportunities to make our actions count.
Religions, especially cults, remove your autonomy and replace it with what appears to be a bargain. What is the bargain? You are offered transcendence; which is to say: more than you could possibly achieve 'on your own.' Everlasting life is one such phony bargain.
You waste your time going through the rituals of a religion chasing illusory transcendence with superficial 'friends' and you'll find yourself an old man one day, out of time, who really accomplished NOTHING. Why?
Because you've traded all the genuinely good things for the phony castles-in-the-air.
The 'brotherhood' is an empty thing, indeed. Your brothers and your sisters will ONLY love you as long as you do exactly what they tell you to do. If you have any ideas of your own--what happens to you?
So, it all comes down to this:
Live a real life doing good by serving your fellow man in a practical and pragmatic way. . .
or
Live a fantasy life which looks lovely and is, in fact meaningless.
Mormons are highly indoctrinated paper dolls.
If you thought believing the Bible was difficult, just wait until you get into the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price!
-
jws
Trailer Park Pioneer wrote:
Mormons are having problems with the Internet like other groups, kids are asking their parents questions about Joseph Smith, B. Young and their views on different races. Mormon kids don't get expelled for against questions, they are not punished because they want answers why their leaders acted poorly and now the Mormon Church is trying to get ahead of their questions by hiring public relations firms to address the concerns instead of blowing off, ignoring their kids concerns and questions. When have JWs ever been honest about their past, they hide, they lie and prevarication is their key weapon against truth!
I thought they still practiced excommunication/disfellowshipping in some form. I could've sworn I've heard testimonies of people in the same position as disfellowshipped JW. And I seem to recall that one Mormon researched DNA evidence and found no link between native Americans and Jewish people and got in trouble with the church for it.
So I'm not so sure they're better. They may not hide the controversy, but people who accept a different opinion than the church will have consequences.
And for those that explore the controversy and accept the Mormon side of the story, they have got to be stupid. I can give a certain amount of leeway to people who don't know any better. To the doctors of days gone by that didn't know about microorganisms and the need for washing hands, sterilizing equipment, etc. But to be a modern doctor to read up on such a topic and decide it's BS? That's just stupidity.
I can accept them staying Mormons for family and friends. But to read the two sides and still accept the Mormon side?
-
ShirleyW
Mormons a bigger con than the JWs?
Do they flip flop on their teachings like the Dubs do?
Do they have a similar belief like the generational thing that has changed three or four times?
Are they trying to phase out their literature from twenty years on down and make believe it never existed?
I honestly don't know, I'm just asking hoping that someone familiar with their teachings can tell me. Personally I think the Dubs aren't that far behind Jim Jones organization, their followers follow along blindly as his did without question.
-
TTATTelder
I agree with ShirleyW.
Firstly it's hard to say one is a bigger con than the other. They are both selling absolute fiction as the secret truths of the universe.
I use the Mormons often as a good reference point for JW's that think the "brotherhood" is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If you have ever been to a middle-size or smaller town in Utah, the Mormons have accomplished exponentially more in the way of building community than the WT ever will. It is like walking around in a modern day "Leave it to Beaver" episode.
Basically, JW's have a conservative group of relatively passive people that are supposed to be living by basic christian standards.
Mormons have that in spades! I would say the Mormons have JW's beat hands down in that department. They might not have the racial diversity, but i think generally speaking the average Mormon is a better and more devout person than the average JW.
Oh and ditto what Terry said above...
-TE
-
joe134cd
ShirleyW=I think although the issues of credibility the two organizations face are different, they are in essence the same. With regards to doctrinal flip flopping.
http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=298&Itemid=14
I also believe that the evidence to disprove the Book of Mormon is more substantial and concret. Sure watchtower has had flip flops but they have been that just flip flops. Explained away by new light, greater understanding, human imperfection etc. For instance did christ take up kingship in 1914. I'm buggard if I know and since God ain't saying anything I can't say for sure. We could argue both ways. Where as the with the Book of Mormon and the ideas of smith received under Devine inspiration by heavenly farther can be proven to be false with hard physical evidence. For instance we now know that people don't live on the sun and moon. The physical evidence of the kinderhook plates, and the book of Abraham ( pearls of great price) has clearly shown that Smith had no idea of translation. I think the most damning of all is the physical evidence from mitochondrial DNA which shows the ancient Americans immigrated from North Eastern Asia. For Gods sake you have just got to look at the American indians to see they have no physical charistics of the Jews. When I sort of look into the history of smith and some of his ideas I can't help but think of him as been a charismatic lyer who ended up believing his own lies. I think both religions developed out of the times they lived in. For instance at the time of smith there was speculation about the lost tribes and the American Indian roots. I guess the Book of Mormon was an answer to this. Then a few decades later with the Adventist movement of which the JWs and SDAs developed from. Both Russell and Smith were not immune to a few shady business dealings- perhaps more so with smith.
-
joe134cd
Despite the above, and the totally off the wall beliefs of the mormon church. I do forsee a better out come for the Mormon church. They have encouraged their members to succeed in life. Financially they better systems in place e.g tithing, although they do run the same wt financial scams of realestate. One thing I do think the Mormon church is years ahead in is fussing up to its members about its past. Well put it this way the missionaries knew that J.smith was a con man and about his various sleeping arrangements. How many JWs would know that Rutherford was a raging alcoholic, who was an abusive pig. I guess we must all reach our own conclusions. -
LisaRose
The Mormons are facing the same problems as the JWs, in that the internet makes it difficult to hide their history. The JWs have reacted by becoming more controlling and crazy while the Mormons are moving towards more honesty. The church recently acknowledged that Joseph Smith had multiple wives, something it had denied previously. It's still a high control religion, and some of their beliefs seem wackier than anything Charlie Russell cooked up, but it's not as destructive to family relationships as the JWs, imo, and they aren't against education. If I had to pick one, I guess I'd go Mormon.