American Identity

by Amazing 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    I enjoyed Englishman's post about Americans vs Europeans. I chose to start a new thread because I want to take the topic in another direction.

    The USA is still a young nation and an enigma. The nation was created by European settlers who wanted to get away from things they did not like about Europe, especially religious intolerance and inflexible governments, and have the opportunity to build a new future. Some wanted to escape prison and class distinctions, and some were forced here because they were social misfits - What is now the State of Georgia was once a place to send outcasts. But the Europeans that arrived here also brought their religions and cultures and somehow had to find a way to work together. It was a long evolution of several hundred years before the USA was born.

    The country has been evolving ever since, and is still struggling to find its identity in an ever changing world. We stand in stark contrast to the long established cultures of France, England, Germany, Spain, Greece, Italy, etc. The USA is still finding its way as it is still a relatively new player on the world scene. We are going through the same growing pains that past empires and great cultures have gone, and we are making many of the same mistakes.

    At the same time, as an American I have always been taught to value and respect other cultures, nations, races, and religions. I think of England, Canada, Australia, and South Africa as brothers. When I first left the USA it was to cross into Canada at VanCouver. The plaque there at the gate talks about the longest unsecured border in the world, and the brotherhood between Canada and the USA.

    As an American, I don't want other cultures to become like us, speak our unique brand of American English, or feel imposed upon by the USA. I want Canada, England, South Africa, and Australia to be what they are. Your unique history, values, and culture are too great to allow yourselves to change into Americans. At the same time our own national and cultural evolution is a product of what so many nations, but especially the British Empire, helped start, and our evolution into a great culture is still a work in progress. We have a long way to go to catch up to the history and greatness of the UNited Kingdom, France, Greece, Italy, Egypt, Germany, and other great peoples of this world.

    I would ask one thing of all from around the world. Please try not to judge America by the handfull of Americans you may have met in your lifetime. This is a very diverse nation of over 280,000,000 people. We did not get this large because we spawn fast, but because on continuing immigration. Americans that travel abroad are not necessarily a good sampling of our nation as a whole.

    I can say that every person I have met from other nations who have traveled here are good and enjoyable to be around, except for one palistinian I worked with who loathed Jews. He was obnoxious to work with. I once worked for bechtel Corporation in San Francisco. Our particular engineering department was so diverse, that I was affectionately referred to as the "token' American. Of the hundreds of people from China, Taiwan, Russia, Ukraine, Lativia, Finnland, Germany, Greece, England, South Africa, France, Italy, Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Phillipines, Viet Nam, India (God love Hindu people!), Mexico, and several other nations, I can honestly say that they are good people, with great values and culture ... and

    While at times certain cultural differences can be irritating, especially when caught off guard, with a little patience and effort to understand one another, I find that we are really all brothers and sisters underneath.

    My favorite cultural difference was with a British fellow. I was working in San Francisco at the time. We were standing outside when he said he was needing to suck a fag. Given that San Francisco was at one time the homosexual (fag) capital of the world, I was taken back by this statement. He clarified that he simply wanted to smoke a cigarette.

    I did not think him rude for making a slur against homosexuals by his use of the term "Fag." I did not think what idiots Englishmen are because they want to do something with homosexuals. I knew that he must mean something more harmless. I learned early on to give people the benefit of the doubt. It is the JW religion that caused me to be somewhat judgmental. It is people from other nations that caused me to realize that most people are good people with good motives acting within the context of their culture. I hope for the day when at least our brother nations of Great Britain, Australia, Canada, and South Africa will give the same benefit of the doubt to Americans and understand that we are still 'growing up' and evolving as a nation, a people, and finding our cultural identity. We are a very diverse people, and owe much to many other nations and cultures.

    Amazing

  • Music Mouth
    Music Mouth

    She came from Providence, the one in Rhode Island
    where the old world shadows hang heavy in the air.
    She packed her hopes and dreams like a refugee,
    just as her father came across the sea.

    She heard about a place people were smilin',
    they spoke about the red man's way, how they loved the land.
    And they came from everywhere to the Great Divide
    seeking a place to stand or a place to hide.

    Down in the crowded bars out for a good time,
    can't wait to tell you all what it's like up there.
    And they called it paradise, I don't know why.
    Somebody laid the mountains low while the town got high.

    Then the chilly winds blew down across the desert,
    through the canyons of the coast to the Malibu
    where the pretty people play hungry for power
    to light their neon way and give them things to do.

    Some rich man came and raped the land, nobody caught 'em,
    put up a bunch of ugly boxes and, Jesus, people bought 'em.
    And they called it paradise, the place to be,
    they watched the hazy sun sinking in the sea.

    You can leave it all behind and sail to Lahaina
    just like the missionaries did so many years ago.
    They even brought a neon sign 'Jesus is Coming',
    brought the white man's burden down, brought the white man's reign.

    Who will provide the grand design, what is yours and what is mine?
    'Cause there is no more new frontier, we have got to make it here.
    We satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds
    in the name of destiny and in the name of God.

    And you can see them there on Sunday morning
    stand up and sing about what it's like up there.
    They called it paradise, I don't know why.
    You call some place paradise - kiss it goodbye.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Hi Amazing.
    Your post is really good, and needed I think. For the most part, I think we Americans deserve what we get overseas. Most of us are self righteous, (maybe that's why the JW thing is overwhelming in this country), about being American, and that it gives us some special 'status'. Only when you go there, do you realize how young a country America really is. The oldest things here are only 300+ years old, while in Europe (or anywhere else for that matter.....except Australia) the buildings are centuries or even over 1000 years old. Quite amazing when you see a castle built in the year 800, or a house 700 years old, still being lived in. It was humbling to us anyway.

    My ancestors came to Maine (in Northeast United States) in the early 1700's from England. They were Quakers who were being horribly persecuted there, so left for their own safety and preservation of their religion. (the family remained Quakers until the early 20th century too) But, the Puritans were here too, who persecuted the Quakers. Then the Puritans evolved into Congregationalists, who were just AWFUL to anyone who didn't believe as they did. On my grandmother's side of the family tree, my ancestors were a long line of Congregationalist ministers, named Smith. Quite well known in New England, as I do my research. Anyway, the religion nonsense seems to be inborn in me.

    Thanks Amazing. I got off track, but I loved your post!!

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    Ditto Amazing - good post, well said.

    Changing tac a tad to something music mouth touched on - One of the most shocking things I have ever seen on the idiot box was during a recent presentation of an american music award to native americans. (Grammy?) The first thing the lead singer said on accepting the award was "I want to thank Jesus .." the audience burst in rapturous applause while my wife and I looked at each other in horror and disbelief - how sad and what an inditement against 'american culture' .. here were grown men being honored for their contribution to indigenos american music thanking the newly arrived white mans god. Many of our aboriginal people have been subdued by western religion too but not many have been reduced to publicly thanking jesus for the earth they walk or air they breath, thank God.

    unclebruce, from the worlds oldest continuous culture, 40,000 years and counting .. (only joking - oldest is not always best and wisdom doesn't necesarily come with age .. no fool like an old fool and all that)

  • Francois
    Francois

    I, too, liked Amazing's post. Um, except for the part about Georgia being for outcasts. Actually, Georgia was founded as a place for people who had been languishing in debtor's prison in England. And we all are aware of the immorality of even the concept of debtor's prison.

    But to show that Oglethorpe's (Georgia's founder) heart was in the right place, lawyers were specifically banned from entry or residence in Georgia.

    I understand that American's overseas can be really overbearing. I think that's where the book "The Ugly Americans" came from. And I do regret that, too. They don't represent me, I'd like you to know. One of the most memorable editorial cartoons I ever saw was from back in the 60s. It showed a giant Charles DeGaulle standing with his arms crossed upon his chest, his nose in the air, and the caption reading, "You Americans are always staying where you're not wanted." DeGaulle's feet were planted in the symetrical arrangement of white crosses at the United States Armed Services Cemetery in Normandy. How soon they forget. And one of those stable, old Western European countries with the thousand-year history and all that charm, Germany, was the reason those guys died there. In fact, Berlin was a center of world culture at Hitler's advent. And if the western european democracies hadn't humiliated Germany with the Treaty of Versailles, Hitler might never have happened.

    And while we're still finding our way in many areas, it doesn't speak all that well to review the history of the British Empire. The British Raj and its behavior in India for example. And I guess it would be politic not to detail the last 700 year's history of the British in Ireland. Not trying to pick a fight here, just pointing out that all countries have episodes that are best left pretty much alone in polite society. It ain't just us Yanks by a long shot who perhaps don't present their best faces internationally. And if the US goes totally socialist, in my opinion personal freedom the world over will be up for grabs.

    Francois
    Savannah, Georgia, USA

    My $0.02

  • Kent
    Kent

    Hi Amazing!

    Americans are al right, most of the time. In your list of reasons you forgot the ones going to America to avoid starving to death :)

    But, there is huge cultuaral differences. It's bad enough that we have to put up with your dots per inch, picas, points, ciceros, nails, ens, ems, ells, letter size, legal size, tabloid size, microns, angstroms, inches, fingers, hands, feet, yards, furlongs, poles, fathoms, links, chains, acres, perches, roods, light-years, astronomical units, miles–there's even a nautical mile!–as well as your pints, quarts, barrels, hogsheads, firkins, pottles, bottles, half bottles, tots, shots, fifths, magnums, carafes, jeroboams, minims, gills, nebuchadnezzars, methuselahs, pecks, bushels, quarters, sacks. And even your very own gallon, different in size from that other one.

    Carats, grains, drams, ounces, pounds, stones, hundredweights, long tons, short tons, bars, tors, atmospheres, pounds per square inch, horsepower, cycles, Fahrenheits, BTU's, even the inane and flawed pounds of thrust and g's. Even when Americans do use a metric unit, they get it wrong. I mean, who thought up the absurd kilowatt-hour?

    Look, I'm not trying to be unkind. I would probably love America, and I really hope I can go there to visit people I know from the net. I really do! And I love the good things America stands for, honest. I just want what's best for everyone, you, and me. So please, folks, don't force us to become Americans.

    The fact is that most "fights" online is because of misunderstandings. Some person says something - tries to write English as the second language - and it doesn't come through as expected. If someone is a bit more outspoken than the Americans - use the so called "four letter words" - all Hell is loose. LOL

    Please folks - go metric!

    Yakki Da

    Kent
    Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
    http://watchtower.observer.org

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    In the same tone as "suck a fag"... Cultural differences.

    My daughter worked for a prominent Jewish attorney. A local synagogue invited him to blow the special horn on I believe Yom Kippur.

    The letter he dictated had these words "I would be honored to blow the Shopher at the upcoming services".

    About an hour after she laid the letter on his desk she was summoned to his office:

    "Would you please change the word from chauffeur to its correct spelling?"

    My daughter confessed to him she knew little about his religion and although she thought it a strange practice - well you just never know.

  • Simon
    Simon

    As a computer programmer, the most annoying thing is the MM/DD/YYYY date format. Why? Who decided to change to using that and when? Did they not realise the problems it would cause computer programmers hundreds of years later? Tuh!

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Amazing,

    A well presented post if I may say so.

    Re Americans overseas, lets please clear up a couple of points. US visitors to London are, in the main, great people and generous to a fault. Once they get over the shock of how few places are air-conditioned, they quickly take to the warm beer and are soon cheerfully blaspheming and practising the art of banter at every opportunity.

    You may find this amusing; one American that I was having a pint with in the Loose Box near to Covent Garden thought it was hilarious that there were huge pedestrian signs to warn people to "LOOK RIGHT" at road crossings. "Hey, Limey", he said (we were both 3 sheets to the wind), "Do English people really need to be told which direction the traffic is coming from?"

    It hadn't occured to him that the LOOK RIGHT and DRIVE ON THE LEFT signs were there exclusively for our overseas visitors. Ho Ho!

    Englishman.

    ..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Those signs are great, but you do have to heed them!! I almost got hit by a bus in Glasgow. Scared me ..........really bad! Everyone was screaming at me and I wondered who they were yelling at. Finally a man grabbed my arm and pulled me back, just in time. Whew!!

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit