Before You Bequeath Your Property To "The Society"..

by Englishman 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    ..Be aware that it could be auctioned to the highest bidder.

    The pic is of the house that the assistant local PO lived at until his death some weeks ago. Like many witnesses, he decided to name the Watchtower Society as the sole beneficiary of his will. Astonishingly, the house has been put up for auction instead of being put on the market via an estate agency.

    This means of disposal ensures a quick sale to a cash buyer with a minimum of delay. However, this quick sale means that the house will sell for much less than it's real value. Auctions of house in the UK are normally limited to repossessions or to properties in a very neglected state. This house is neither of those things and would normally be sold for around £225,000. At auction £170,000 would be more realistic.

    So, what's going on? Why are the society prepared to go to auction to realise a much lower figure instead of hanging in there for a few weeks to get it's proper market value?

    One other thing. There are around 100 publishers in the late asst PO's territory. What a pity he didn't have the money split between them, £2000 each would have made quite a difference in the lives of many of them!

    Aaaah..

    Englishman.

  • ball.
    ball.

    Mike, have you thought of bidding for it and pocketing the 50,000? I would certainly be up for such an investment, speculate to accumalate.

  • dustyb
    dustyb

    we need to all buy the property as real estate and sell it to make all of us some fat cash.....american dollar's goin down and microsoft dropped 3 points ;)

  • Englishman
    Englishman
    Mike, have you thought of bidding for it and pocketing the 50,000? I would certainly be up for such an investment, speculate to accumalate.

    Maybe that's the intention of one of the WT's advisors down here! I could probably raise a hundred grand but it would take months to organise. Englishman.

  • core
    core

    As a "Charity" the society can receive bequests free of Inheritance Tax - an individual who tried to sell this property for less than the valuation set for probate would have to pay IHT tax on the amount over the IHT threshold (assuming other property/money etc took this estate over the £265k limit), regardless of the amount raised at auction, - so individals are not really able to use the auction method to sell as any shortfall below the value set by/or agreed by the district valuer, would carry a potential tax liability.

    On the difference between auction price & "usual selling" price - this had changed dramatically in the last 6 months with buy to let properties forcing the housing market higher.

    Lesson from this is how sad to see an entire lifes value and worth used by an anonymous group who will claim all the charity benefits but have no charitable deeds at all. - as on another post - check your will and remove the WT, local congs etc from any bequests you make.

  • iiz2cool
    iiz2cool

    I just sold my own house, and it was bought two days after it was listed at a higher price than I expected. I doubt an auction would be any quicker!

    Considering how much time, work, and money is invested in a home, this really shows how little respect the society has for the labours of its members. All they want is a quick buck!

    I don't have any children or family members who are close, but I doubt I would leave my estate to any charity. No charity or religious organization ever helped when I was in need. I'd much sooner leave my property to someone I knew who was in need.

    Walter

  • ball.
    ball.

    Core, are you saying that the rise in the housing market is closing the gap between the value of auctioned and non-auctioned properties and if so what kind of percentage figure can you put on the difference?

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Hi Mike,

    Well ... it all depends ... here in the USA, that is. I designed the auction program in our office, which I named the Sealed Bid Sale. During good market conditions, houses can sell for over asking price. In order to create a bidding war, you can use an "auction" atmosphere ... people are initially getting a good deal at the opening bid, but that deal can erode as competing buyers decide to bid.

    In a Sealed Bid Sale, used more often in commercial real estate (which is what I do) the seller sets a "reserve" wherein they do not have to accept a bid lower than a certain amount. So, for example the Society could have an opening bid of £170,000, with a "reserve" of say £200,000. They, then can refuse to even look at a bid under £170,000, and reject any bid under £200,000 ... but must accept any bid over £200,000.

    In California, especially the Bay Area around San Francisco, it is not uncommon during excellent market conditions, to see homes sell for $20,000 to $40,000 over asking price ... and that happens without any auction. We have had that happen here some in the Chicago area. Given I was originally from California we decided to try auctions here ...

    So, the Society could be trying to do one of two things ... sell off quickly to get cash before property taxes are due (assuming the UK taxes property) and avoid other holding costs ... and/or realize a greater profit by creating a bidding war.

    If they had any gumption, they would listed it with a JW Realtor, and let him/her make some money. They should also do as you suggest, and share the funds with the local JWs, or with the more needy ... you know, some good old fashioned charity ... after all, the Society worked very hard to be registered as a charity in the UK ... over and above objections coming from ex-JWs across the pond.

  • gumby
    gumby

    It's funny how the society throws away money. They will also not think twice of spending millions in lawsuits that could be avoided.....if they would change their policies. They have their hands so tied that the few weeks they could wait for a higher price for the donated house........that it's more trouble than it's worth to them. I'm sure there have been many of dead real estate dub donors, who have rolled over in their graves when they heard the price their former house sold for by the society.

    Gumby

  • Hyghlandyr
    Hyghlandyr

    Ive read the various comments about the Society and how it demonstrates the kinds of fiends they are, for auctioning the house instead of selling it. I do not see it. If someone would like to post something that really demonstrates that auctioning an inherited property is devious, I would be glad to listen.

    I do not know how charities work in the UK. I know that in the USA religions are registered with the IRS under a 501C classification. This does not require that they give something back to society. It is used only to differentiate an organization that is not primarly profit related from one that is. However, if an organization, church, or other non-profit, does something non-related that makes a profit, they have to declare it and pay taxes on it.

    For instance, if I start to collect donations for my church (which I can do now that I am ordained with the Universal Life Church) and I use those donations for building a meeting hall, then that is non-taxable. If I use the donations to pay base expenses, such as certain meals, or transportation expenses, that are related to my duty as a minister, those are non-taxable. If the donations, or the church itself, buys or leases me a car, as long as I am only using it for church duties, I do not have to pay taxes. Once I start to use it for personal use, the line gets hazier and hazier and eventually, I have to pay at least some tax based on my percentage of personal use of the vehicle.

    I understand that many ex jws think Jehovahs Witnesses are not a religion and not entitled to 501c classification, or other charity classifications in other countries. A lot of that though depends on the law. If the law allows religions to have such classification then they are most certainly entitled to it. Personally I think religions should be treated like everyone else. If a religion takes in donations, it has to pay income tax on them in the same fashion as everyone else. No perks. Though of course they also would get to deduct expenses like everyone else, such as payroll, utilities, rent or mortgage and so forth. Thus they, like everyone else, would only pay taxes on their profit.

    We want to believe in religious freedom, but I have noticed from many ex jws that religious freedom, .like for most people, means religious freedom for those that think like us. I do not have to believe the things that JWs believe. I do not have like their practices. I can oppose shunning. I can expose their UN policies and membership. I can even demand that they, and all religions be held to the same rules that apply to secular society. Such as reporting abuse. filing taxes and providing information in their files about members to the members, (as in Englands law which requires companies and charities to do so..similar to the USA's freedom of information act, though our act only requires the govt to provide such information).

    But in demanding these things, that religion be treated the same as everyone else, I also require that religions get the same fair treatment. If the law allows religions to get away with not paying income tax like everyone else, then that has to apply to everyone. If the law allows religions to inherit, then that has to apply to everyone. If the law allows auctions instead of normal straight up sales, then that has to apply also. I fail to see how it is devious. And when I am looking at the society, I am hoping not to color my vision of knowledge and experience of things that are indeed demonstrations of selfishness, hypocrisy, and harm to their members on their part, with such visions in every action that they take, even those things that are not such as mentioned.

    I do not of course close my eyes to the great harm that is caused by them, other christian religions, other religions, other govt organizations, other businesses, other philosophies, other persons around the world. I merely am saying I am better off looking for harm where it exists instead of being offended at things that are not harmful.

    All of that now being said, would it have been nice if they were a true charitable organization? Wouldn't it be nice if they took this money from the house and donated it to at least JWs that are in dire need and also told those jws not to worry about donating in their poor state? Wouldnt it be nice if they had real educational programs, like critical thinking courses and wouldnt it be nice if they encouraged college attendance and even, gasp, offered scholarships or at least loans to those attending? Sure all the way around. But none of this helps me to see how them auctioning a house that they inherited rather than just sellingg it on the market, makes them fiends.

    Goddess Bless (thyself)

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