Why didn't Abraham suspect it was Satan telling him to kill Isaac?

by True North 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • El blanko
    El blanko
    But, hypothetically, if you knew it was God, would you kill your loved one, without a doubt?

    If a person has faith that goes beyond what is normal to most men, then he would probably answer yes. In the absolute assurance that the God he knows and loves would never bring harm to a family member who is known and loved.

    Would I do it? If Almighty God commanded me directly and I had no doubt at all that it was Almighty God, then maybe I would. Would you?

    Peter denied Christ according to the Bible to spare his own life and Jesus did not reject him for his weakness, I'd rather focus upon that example myself. Being as Jesus is the God we are taught to focus upon.

  • True North
    True North
    If I remember correctly it was Jehovah who told Abraham to kill Isaac to see how faithful Abraham was. Don't really know where you got it being Satan or a demon unless I was asleep when we were taught that one!

    elle: Yes, according to the story, the order to kill Isaac did originate with God. I was questioning why Abraham would assume the voice he heard was God's. Given the horrific nature of the instructions and their apparent contradiction of God's previous promise to Abraham regarding Isaac, it would seem to me that a much more reasonable assumption for Abraham to have made would have been that the voice was from Satan or a demon unless -- of course -- Abraham did not believe in them or believe that they took any such active role in earthly affairs. He might also reasonably have questioned his own sanity before attributing such a thing to his God.

    *puts foam on wall for True North*

    SixofNine: Is that a good thing?

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    It must be remembered that infant sacrifice was widely practiced in Canaan and in the Phoenician colonies of North Africa. It was even practiced in Israel, but not approved (2 Kings 16:3; Micah 6:7). While it may appear that Yahweh is in favor of it in Gen. 22, ultimately it is not sanctioned.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/sondove1.html

    Good point about people who hear voices or see visions. Question is, how do you know it's REAL if it is. For one thing, probably 99.9% of them can't be real since there is only one Messiah, and thus it underscores why John the Baptist, in addition to scripture and his own belief that Jesus was the promised Messiah, a "sign from heaven" was also given, directly from heaven confirming this. This distinguishes those who might be just having visions or be delusional or are on drugs. Thus it is clear now ever more why that physical manifestation from heaven, independent of both Bible and witnessing by the individual was necessary. Not necessarily for those who believe, though that's an additional confirmation, but for those who don't believe the Bible nor what the person is experiencing.

    Likewise, at the second coming a heavenly manifestation was REQUIRED as part of the second coming, that is, the "sign of the son of man" (Matt 24:30)..."And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven."

    What's great is that it was not a "vision" this time but in the form of cloud imagery which means it could be photographed if you happened to have a camera handy. But who has a camera handy unless you were EXPECTING it?

    This sign appears to all of the JIOR personally, in their own backyard, so to speak. Else, how can a sign in one place be seen by all?

    The sign of the son of man did appear when the Messiah became flesh again in 1992. The sign appeared and was photographed by those who were connected with this very local event but I didn't get a photo. But seven years later, someone came out of hiding and claimed she knew I was the Messiah, la, la, la. I was suspicious because that's not the usual way we communicate in the JIOR. At any rate, turns out it was God's purpose since she was an amateur skyscape photographer, meaning she had the equipment and was used to skyscapes and photography. This interaction was just before the 7th anniversary of the second coming and the sign which appeared in the late afternoon of December 26, 1992. So we figured, since SEVEN is a big number in the Bible, that maybe the sign would appear again. We both went outside to see in our own areas (two different states). Only she decided to photograph everything from 3 PM to 6PM. She then sent me the photos. When I was going through the photos I saw the "sign" -- the sleeping black child and the dove. Later the JIOR pointed out to me a third image of a body being lifted out of the river of fire (Zech 3:1) as part of the image.

    There is no way, on this specific date, in connection with this specific person, who just happened to be an experienced photographer that this specific three-part sign appeared!!! It is posted above.

    So am I crazy and just imagining any of this? It may be but I do have the photos of the sign. Plus this specific sign must have been seen by other JIOR (rebel anointed JWs) since it appears in cryptic form in the "Revelation Book"!!!

    So in this case, there is something more than just mania going on. But again, you need something "extra" like this to distinguish one maniac from the other. But since the Bible prophesied this "sign" would appear, it's interesting I have a photo of it.

    This is God's own imagery of the nature of the second coming. The prodigal son second coming who happens to be of "Ethiopian" (black) descent is depicted as a sleeping black child. The dove, of course, representing holy spirit that tranfers the spirit of the Messiah. And the "mummy" being snatched out of the river of fire represents both the Messiah and Jerusalem saved at the last minute from destruction (i.e. the Jews were out of God's favor up until after the HOLOCAUST when God's anger rested and then he restored the remainign 1/3 to Israel in 1947 and continued to bless them ever since, making them a full nation again in the world).

    It's all real, it's all magnificent.

    Bottom line, I have PROOF in both the Revelation Book and in the photo that this sign appears to the anointed JIOR and thus I'm REAL. The Bible requires the Messiah to appear in 1992, technically between November 30, 1992 and April 6 1993, and that's when this manifestation occurred.

    So people will doubt as long as they want to, wanting "more" of a sign than the Bible and a few blurred pictures of a sleeping black child, but one day it will become manifest that this REALLY is the Messiah and many will come knocking on the door saying they want to get into the kingdom. And guess what? Will the fact that NOW they believe because of some special sign or miracle now allow them to be welcomed in? No way!

    From Heaven's point of view, ther eis ENOUGH in Scripture fulfilled prophecy and in the cloud manifestation signs for the true person searching to believe. If someone needs "more" then Heaven considers them wicked and when they are forced to accept reality later, perhaps just before Armageddon and then they KNOW it's real, of course, they will want to save their necks since the present world will be over but it will be too late.

    Fine if you don't want to believe, but you can't say I didn't tell you or warn you or explain it to you in detail, if you get rejected for not believing or not checking out the facts.

    Sorry. In fact, it may already be too late. The man with the writer's inkhorn goes through and marks everybody, like Noah entering the ark. But there is a period of 7 days of "darkness" before the actual destruction starts taking place. The modern parallel will be not what you are convinced about when the Messiah is manifested in a magnificent way for everyone to see and believe, but what your position was on the matter prior to that. Were you looking for the Messiah? Did you believe the Bible. Of course, you'll believe the Bible after Armageddon starts, but do you believe it now?

    Those who believe are getting in. And those who generally have a good point in not believing just anybody, have the clouds to prove this is a little bit different and MAYBE it should be looked at a little closer. But that's all the help you're gonna get. You have to WANT to make sure you get saved and be focussed. Nobody straddling the fence or "luke warm" are going to make it.

    Know this.

    JC

  • Agent 1 of 1
    Agent 1 of 1

    Wow, I'm happy he's not God.

  • gods vigilante
    gods vigilante

    Anyone else smell that?

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    The dating game: 1992. Delusional.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    *puts foam on wall for True North*

    SixofNine: Is that a good thing?

    I just figured after elle's post you'd have an urge to beat your head against it. *stacks more foam* And I know you will after JCanon's post, lol.

  • crinklestein
    crinklestein

    The point that is trying to be made is this:

    If God said that it was wrong and evil to kill an innocent person then why would God tell you to kill someone to prove your faith to Him?

    Abe would've proven his faith more by REFUSING to kill his son. By saying, "No God, I will NOT kill my son! You've said in the past that murder is evil and wrong. I would be violating your law and my code of ethics if I do what you ask." How is it proving your faith to God when you are violating his laws? What, just because God changed his mind on this one occassion makes it ok for you to do it?

    God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or they would die. What if God told them, one day, to eat from it to prove their faith? Would'nt they be confused on what to do? "We have to eat the fruit to prove our faith!"
    "But God told us not to before so we'll prove our faith by NOT eating it!"
    "But God said we could eat it now."
    "God says he is everlasting and unchanging. Why the sudden change? Is God a hypocrit?"
    "..."

    Just because God says to do something doesn't make it right to do. Because you would still have to answer to YOUR CONSCIENCE, your built in sense of right and wrong, your sense of justice. And God wouldn't force you to violate your moral and ethical code just to prove your faith to Him. This account of Abe and Issac has never sat well with me as it is not like God to request this. It sounds as if Satan or a demon was asking him to do this and Abe was duped.

  • gumby
    gumby

    As witnesses, we were taught that Jehovah NEVER tests anyone.

    I guess when Jehovah asked Abraham to kill his only son.........a..........it musta been April Fools Day

    Gumby

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