Proof

by desib77 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  garybuss

  
  
  Did a man named Yeshua exist? Was he the Jewish Messiah? Was he God's bastard son? Was he God himself? Are the stories true? Does it matter?
  
  I think it's very possible a man named Yeshua lived. The rest? . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  garybuss

  What if this is someone elses dream? What happens to us when she wakes up?
• 

  El blanko

  Interesting article that, thanks for the link - http://www.atheists.org/church/didjesusexist.html

  A snippet from that link up there:

  It is sometimes claimed that the "miraculous" spread of Christianity in the early Roman Empire is evidence of an historical Jesus - that such a movement could not have gone so far so fast had there not been a real person at its inception. A similar argument could be made, however, in the case of the earlier rapid spread of Mithraism. I am unaware of any Christian apologists who would argue that this supports the idea of an historical Mithra!

  Hmmm... true enough, but that does not mean that Mithra is the way, even though it may have had a tangible inception.

  Check this link: http://www.well.com/user/davidu/mithras.html - not that I am an expert, but that particular area of worship appears to be steeped in mind boggling esoteric knowledge and idolatry, whereas the pure Christian faith helped followers walk away from that materialistic style of God worship. Mithraism although appearing at the time of Christianity, stands in complete opposition of the core ideals.

  I plan to return to the atheist link and have a good read. It is worth noting however that the author is not a man of faith so some of his points made leave possible divine intervention out of the picture completely. He does not consider the writings inspired (fair enough, it's his right) and therefore attempts to shoehorn every account into a rationalized pigeon-hole.
• 

  desib77

  garybuss,

  Did a man named Yeshua exist? Was he the Jewish Messiah? Was he God's bastard son? Was he God himself? Are the stories true? Does it matter?

  It matters to me.

  weasel,

  Thanks for the links. I hope to have time to read them this evening.

  Desi
• 

  weasel

  Desi,

  Glad to do my part. I?m not an atheist, I am agnostic. Wish you well.

  Weasel
• 

  hooberus

  Encyclopedia Brittanica Micropaedia Vol. 3 p.762

  "There were various methods of performing the execution. Usually, the condemned man, after being whipped, or "scourged," dragged the crossbeam of his cross to the place of punishment, where the upright shaft was already fixed in the ground. Stripped of his clothing either then or earlier at his scourging, he was bound fast with outstrectched arms to the crossbeam or nailed firmly to it through the wrists. The crossbeam was then raised high against the upright shaft and made fast to it about 9 to 12 feet (approximately 3 metres) from the ground. Next, the feet were tightly bound or nailed to the upright shaft. A ledge inserted about halfway up the upright shaft gave some support to the body; evidence for a similar ledge for the feet is rare and late. Over the criminal's head was placed a notice stating his name and his crime. Death, apparently caused bu exhaustion or by heart failure, could be hastened by shattering the legs (crurifragium) with an iron club, so that shock and asphyxiation soon nded his life."

  The same arcticle later says:

  "in about AD 32 Pontius Pilate had Jesus of Nazareth put to death by crucifixion."

  • Jewish historian Josephus recorded that Jesus Christ was a historical person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person (some dispute this reference, though the below part is commonly accepted).

  "and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him;"

  • Roman Historian Tacitus (Ad 115 Annals 15.44. ) believed that Jesus Christ was a historical Person crucified under Pilate himself a historical person.

  "But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."
  

  • Justin Martyr (147 A.D.) appealed to a document apparenty extant in his day called the "Acts of Pontius Pilate" as a historical reference for the fact of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ by Pontius Pilate. Such a document would have been written near the time of the event.

  The First Apology of Justin

  Chapter XXXV.-Other Fulfilled Prophecies.

  And the expression, "They pierced my hands and my feet," was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after He was crucified they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among them. And that these things did happen, you can ascertain from the Acts of Pontius Pilate. 71

  71 aktwn . These Acts of Pontius Pilate, or regular accounts of his procedure sent by Pilate to the Emporer Tiberius, are supposed to have been destroyed at an early period, possibly in consequence of the unanswerable appeals which the Christians constantly made to them. There exists a forgery in imitation of these Acts. See Trollope.