QUESTIONS ON "EVIL"

by Tina 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    Thanks Agust - Satan .. of course .. how could we forget about him that dude uses us whites for his evil plans against the blacks and the blacks for his evil plans against the kkk .. gee wilicas it'll be good when he's chained for a thousand years, the wasps 'll stop flying away with infant spiders to feed their young and the cats claws 'll fall off so the mice can walk about at a comfortable pace, people are all gonna be nice to each other and sip dandylion tea as the sun slowly sinks on the dreams of evil men .. yeah sure

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hi Tina,

    I agree with Jan that a definition of evil is the best place to start and I also agree that being selfish, at least in the extreme can be evil. I have no good definition myself. In my opinion one of the main elements for evil to grow and prosper is indifference and unconcern. Most will probably agree that the majority of Germans during the Nazi era wasn't evil or wanted to do evil, but still they were more or less willingly supporting extreme evil.

    One of our poets, Arnulf Overland said that: “You shouldn’t tolerate so very well, the injustice that isn’t aimed at yourself”

    This is a very rough translation, but IMO it sums up the main reason why evil can go on. This is of course hardly the reason for evil itself but it is certainly a necessary condition for evil to thrive.

    Most Jehovah's Witnesses isn’t personally evil and would hopefully not be willing to kill their fellow man, but they are all looking forward with great anticipation and joy to the most horrible bloodbath in the history of mankind. They even call it wonderful!
    What makes people become so totally indifferent and unconcerned?

    Norm

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hello again Tina,

    SJ said:

    Satan uses us, Tina. And we... allow ourselves to BE used. But... we don't have to. We CAN... choose good. Unfortunately, most folks don't WANT to choose good. They LIKE 'bad'... and justify it. From lying to fornication to idolatry, to drunkeness, to stealing, to... whatever. Hey, it's MY life! And indeed, it is. Too bad, others suffer because folks are just living THEIR life.

    Indeed, what better way to explain evil but with utter superstition. Isn¡¦t it great?

    But it will not always be so. For they... are having their reward in full... now. The best, however, is yet to come.
    I bid you peace... and love... and I remain...
    Your servant, sister and a slave of Christ,
    SJ

    Yes, Tina you have a lot to look forward to ƒº The best is yet to come when the Lord ¡§brings vengeance¡¨ upon us less superstitious ones. What tremendous peace and what wonderful love the Lord have in store for us.

    *** Rbi8 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 ***
    6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God¡¦s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.

    I mean, isn¡¦t wonderful news Tina?

    Norm.

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Everyone !

    Thank you for the input. It is indeed complex. I really got a lot from everyone's perspectives.Thank you for taking the time here!
    Intro,the disc group is a few friends and myself.We get together when we can,find a cafe and talk about things like this.
    I have no definition myself.We only just started this so no summaries yet available.
    We are looking at it from a social science perspective,,,socio-cultural,genetics,psych etc.
    I look forward to more thoughts.((((((((((to all)))))))))))Tina
    PS to outnfree-I missed that issue!! Thanks for the offer! hugs,T

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Hey, Norm... and may you have peace!

    I think you misunderstood me... I did not base evil on superstition. In fact, I believe I said that Satan is NOT to blame for our evil, that WE are... he only exploits what already exists in us... and then, only if we LET him. Indeed, there are many, MANY occasions when Satan has absolutely NOTHING to do with our 'evil'. We just simply CHOSE to do bad.

    I do believe, however, that we will not continue to time indefinite this way. I do believe that Satan... AND those who LOVE bad... Gog (spirits) and Magog (people)... will all come to their end. And I am glad that it doesn't have to be at my hand, for I really don't want the responsibility. Sorry, but that is the truth.

    As for my Father's vengeance, I find it SO funny that 'earthling' man will do whatever HE feels necessary to protect... what, his PETROLEUM?... let alone his family (I am SURE you would do what you needed to protect YOUR family, Norm)... and that 'earthling' man feels that criminals should pay in SOME sort of way... with his/her life or money or community service, etc., but PAY all the same for any wrong committed against society...

    ... but DECRY that my Father feels EXACTLY the same way about HIS family... and HIS property. Can you spell 'hypocrite', Norm? For that is what those who feel offenders should pay, but feel God is not justified in meteing out HIS justice and vengeance, are.

    And please, don't give me that "God is better than us" melarkey. For indeed, HE is. That is the VERY reason that He has been patient and not wiped us ALL out... for our various and sundry transgressions. Doesn't matter whether it's RIGHT, Norm. What matters is that... He CAN! And it would an exceptional human to have that kind of power... and not wield it at the LEAST little offense. You know that is true.

    I am truly sorry that you misunderstood me, Norm.

    I bid you peace... and I am,

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hello there,

    You said:

    Hey, Norm... and may you have peace!
    I think you misunderstood me... I did not base evil on superstition. In fact, I believe I said that Satan is NOT to blame for our evil, that WE are... he only exploits what already exists in us... and then, only if we LET him. Indeed, there are many, MANY occasions when Satan has absolutely NOTHING to do with our 'evil'. We just simply CHOSE to do bad.

    Oh dear, my mistake I didn’t know that belief in Satan isn’t superstition.

    I do believe, however, that we will not continue to time indefinite this way. I do believe that Satan... AND those who LOVE bad... Gog (spirits) and Magog (people)... will all come to their end. And I am glad that it doesn't have to be at my hand, for I really don't want the responsibility. Sorry, but that is the truth.

    Yes of course it is the truth. You just said it didn’t you?

    As for my Father's vengeance, I find it SO funny that 'earthling' man will do whatever HE feels necessary to protect... what, his PETROLEUM?... let alone his family (I am SURE you would do what you needed to protect YOUR family, Norm)... and that 'earthling' man feels that criminals should pay in SOME sort of way... with his/her life or money or community service, etc., but PAY all the same for any wrong committed against society...
    ... but DECRY that my Father feels EXACTLY the same way about HIS family... and HIS property. Can you spell 'hypocrite', Norm? For that is what those who feel offenders should pay, but feel God is not justified in meteing out HIS justice and vengeance, are.

    Yes, again it all make sense, some times it is best to kill everyone that doesn’t agree with you. There is many examples of that through history.

    And please, don't give me that "God is better than us" melarkey. For indeed, HE is. That is the VERY reason that He has been patient and not wiped us ALL out... for our various and sundry transgressions. Doesn't matter whether it's RIGHT, Norm. What matters is that... He CAN! And it would an exceptional human to have that kind of power... and not wield it at the LEAST little offense. You know that is true.
    I am truly sorry that you misunderstood me, Norm.

    I bid you peace... and I am,

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

    Of course I wouldn’t say God is better than us. How could a homicidal maniac be better than us? He is far worse than any human being and when it comes to evil the Devil is a complete amateur compared to God. I am rally happy that I am a much better person than your God, I would of course never kill my children just because I CAN. You truly have picked an unusually despicable God.

    You have my heartfelt condolences.

    Norm.

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Francoise wrote:

    As stated in the Tao Te Ching: Beauty is recognized as beauty only in contrast to ugliness. Evil is recognised as evil only in contrast to the good.

    I guess I flipped through the first few pages too quickly before, but obviously you're talking about Chapter 2. I found the word translated as evil, and thought some of you might be interested to know that the Chinese word used here basically means intentional evil. I don't believe it is the same as the idea of evil in the English language because you don't have this idea of pure, absolute evil. One way you might look at this passage is the subjective nature of the idea of beauty (in the eye beholder..) and evil intention. Of course, the whole point about one being recognize as the opposite of the other is that it's relative, so it doesn't speak about the absolute, therefore it does not speak to the idea of absolute evil.

    "It is not so much that you use your mind wrongly--you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease." -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    BTW, if any of you have a commentary on the TTC it'd be interesting to hear what they have to say about this passage..

    "It is not so much that you use your mind wrongly--you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease." -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now

  • mommy
    mommy

    Hey tina teena bobeena
    I was up last night, couldn't sleep. I ran across this discussion, and intantly thought of you. I was actualy going to forward it to you, but I am lazy

    I tend to agree with alotof what Cliff Walker has to say. Enjoy
    wendy

    . http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9281.htm

    Blind faith can justify anything~Richard Dawkins, The selfish gene

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