by catlady 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The only time when war is not a zero sum game is simple genocide. Then someone can win for good!
That would make it a zero sum game; one side wins completely and the other side loses completely. Most wars are non-zero sum games; as there are losses to both sides they may well be negative-sum games. Perhaps you should avoid using terms you don't understand.
Fine how about fair game. I actually mutated it. acidentally sorry. I had I good model but she kept adding stuff. Like colonialism and crap. So I tried to one up her and lost. In the broader context I believe I was right.
No worries, i dont take permanent offence very often (unless you really annoy me). I just find that on this site nobody really listens to what i have to say when they look at how old i am. This is particularly annoying to a young individual in society today who has a strong opinion about something.
Believe me i have given a hell of alot of thought into joining the military and that is what i will damn well do. I know that i am emotionally stable and this really IS what i want. As i pointed out earlier after somebody reinforced my argument, if this was a perfect world (which it is far from) them sure my view would be different. But i belive that somebody has to be willing to risk their live to defend their country. Trust me, nothing will change my mind about this.
Hey and thanks to the support that somebody gave me. Lol, i wasn;t sure about joining these forums because everybody seems to think of really clear, logical arguments and in that respect i guess my age really does show. But its better if people jut read what i have to say before pre-judging me and my thoughts.
Thanks guys, this is an interesting subject. xLaura x
XLX,
I think you need to remember this is a forum that debates alot,,and we have strong opinions that get challenged all the time.
You may be young,,but it you post here prepare to get some of your posts challenged.
I think it wounderful you post here but you must know you will be challenged on your veiws if you express them,,it is healthy,,and will make everyone think more. Be very slow to take offense,,and you will learn alot.
XQsThaiPoes:
Actually JWs are NOT pacifist. We are partisan objectors.
I understand the point: JWs aren't against war, just against taking sides in wars conducted by human governments.
War is a zero sum game! It just reduces the population that is all....War does nothing but kill people.
But now here you are changing your initial position and coming out against war itself. Since you referred to JWs as "we", I'm assuming that you consider yourself to be one. Therefore, I would also assume that you must join with the "faithful and discreet slave" in applauding the assorted wars and massacres that were engaged in with God's direction and blessing according to the Bible. If that is true, then I don't see how you could be condemning war per se.
As for enjoying the benefits of war without having done anything to earn them, surely you would agree that JWs and their preaching work benefited from the defeat of the Axis governments in WWII. Instead of the continuing oppression that JWs would have experienced in Germany and Japan had the Axis powers won -- which oppression would have been extended to the conquered nations -- JWs enjoyed the freedom to preach and the opportunity to lead relatively secure, peaceful, prosperous lives amidst the great increase in their numbers in these countries that the post-war conditions facilitated.
I would like to say ww2 took power from 2 dictators in 2 small countries, but kept in power 2 dictators of 2 large countries. So even the most "moral" of wars WW2 is still a zero sum game. So one guy dies for "freedom" and the other for another dictator.
It is true that the fruits of victory were unevenly shared. The peoples of the Soviet Union made a huge sacrifice in a truly heroic struggle against a menace that promised even more misery than that already visited upon them by their own government. That they were denied the freedom they had earned was a great tragedy for them and for the Eastern European countries that became Soviet satellites. Still, though, it was better than what would have been their lot if enslaved by a foreign power that viewed Slavs as subhuman and Jews as fit only for extermination. And as far as it having been a zero sum game, not only did the Western Allies benefit from their victory -- in comparison to what would have been their lot in defeat -- the people of the Axis nations benefited as well since they have enjoyed a greater prosperity than they'd ever known in conditions of freedom they certainly would not have had under the Axis regimes. And this "win-win" outcome was in large part due to the generous, non-vindictive post-war behavior of the victorious Western governments that you seem to want to equate with the defeated Axis regimes and assorted other dictatorships.
Actually JWs are NOT pacifist. We are partisan objectors. JWs die in war like everyone else they just don't fight in them. We are jailed or executed for non-participation. That should be just as good as actively dying.
Ah, yes, references to "persecution" of JWs--relgious/non-participation persecution no other religious or ethnic group has ever endured. The noble JWs...
Not clear on what the heck you think a "partisan objector", is--haven't heard that one but you are trying to mislead with your words. A pacifist doesn't believe in fighting for their country--or anyone fighting for one's country due to a conscientious belief that war is wrong. Either JW's believe this, or they do not. Whe
When the Japanese took Korea, and JWs refused to serve they were heroes to the Koreans, and criminals to the Japanese.
Oh, so now "non-participation" in wars equates to heroism to the other nation? What screwed up logic! With that logic, I'm sure JW's are heroes to Al-Queda and the terrorists, since they refuse to fight with the US, "the enemy of Allah..."
Please. It's just like how the JW's like to throw out claims that they've done "more for religious freedom," than another other group in the country. The irony is this: they don't even BELIEVE in reglious freedom, for anyone else that is.
Maybe ?normal? people would kill for their country or their party. If that were extended to JWs we would have to kill for the Watchtower?s Theocratic party. It would suck more for you guys than it would for us. Cuz at least we would be in control of our lives instead of turning them over to the powers that be to do what they wish like in every other conflict.
Oh, really? And under what circumstances do you envision you would start literally "fighting" for the "Theocratic Party?." Who would you target? And how do you envision "fighting"? Who would be your commander in chief? Officers? Solidiers?
It's not that i take offence to what people have to argue it just when people disregard things that i say based plainly on my age as somebody did earlier. That was my problem. I think that a healthy debate is good and am totally open to opinion, so long as people acknowledge what ive had to say.
Ah, yes, references to "persecution" of JWs--relgious/non-participation persecution no other religious or ethnic group has ever endured. The noble JWs...Not clear on what the heck you think a "partisan objector", is--haven't heard that one but you are trying to mislead with your words. A pacifist doesn't believe in fighting for their country--or anyone fighting for one's country due to a conscientious belief that war is wrong. Either JW's believe this, or they do not.
JWs do not believe war is wrong. We are not pacifist.
BTW I am not "anti-war" as much as I am a social relativist. It seems really dumb for people to say someone I don't know died so I can vote when a communist died so I couldn't. Also in Russia it was worse for JWs after ww2. So how come you can't see you are screwed if you were on the wrong side of the fence and shipped to Siberia to freeze, work, and die?
Oh, so now "non-participation" in wars equates to heroism to the other nation? What screwed up logic! With that logic, I'm sure JW's are heroes to Al-Queda and the terrorists, since they refuse to fight with the US, "the enemy of Allah..."
Considering we are not that Christian, and Unitarians. Yeah probably.
Oh, really? And under what circumstances do you envision you would start literally "fighting" for the "Theocratic Party?." Who would you target? And how do you envision "fighting"? Who would be your commander in chief? Officers? Solidiers?
Anyone we are told. Everyone. Mass Murder. Jesus. The anointed. Few million militant angels.
Religion aside In real life WTS would use its billions to fund terrorist cells. We already have a vast smuggling network. Realistically each JW would have to kill over 1000 people to feel safe. This is impossible to do cheaply with a standing army with out WMDs.
So we would have to commandeer NATO i n real real life if we converted a large well-armed nation (I love America?s weapons btw) then they would do kill everyone not in the "Theocratic Party". That is the cool thing about our "mind control" is that it can spread easily and people are itching for the end of the world to come. Fortunately we are too responsible to try to infiltrate the military... yet. The WTS literally has the JW equivalent of special ops around the world. The ruses the WTS pulls are straight out of the comic books. So there could be flies on the walls of places you would not expect already.
BTW there was a warring sect of "active" JWs in Africa. The WTS denies that they were JWs and claims they only handed out magazines and preached to gain political momentum. Would it be scary if they where real JWs and the WTS is lying. Move over Alqaeda!
