Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-25-04 WT Study (3-15-04)

by blondie 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  blondie

  Thanks for posting that picture, jgnat. It griped my ass, pardon me, but it did. Of course, the average JW will buy into it because they have no knowledge of early Christian times except what the WTS feeds them. When I started studying comparative religions, I was humbled by what I didn't know and what crap I had to clear out.

  Minimus, good point, I wish I had said it. I'm going to save it.

  I wonder how the WTS tries to sidestep it? Notice how they use the word "appear," a buzzword meaning the Bible doesn't say but we are going to add to the Bible.

  These "evangelizers" appear to have been given God?s spirit in a specially strong way in preaching, training and building up others. Philip was one of these.

  Ephesians 4:11

  11

  And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers,

  w74 6/1 pp. 335-336 Do You Have the Evangelizing Spirit?

  6 The Greek word used in the Bible for "good news" is eu·ag·ge´li·on, or "evangel." The Bible uses the term "evangelizer" with respect to certain designated ones, for it tells us that Jesus, when he ascended to heaven, gave gifts in men, "some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ." (Eph. 4:11, 12) These "evangelizers" appear to have been given God?s spirit in a specially strong way in preaching, training and building up others. Philip was one of these.?Acts 21:8, 9.

  7

  Nevertheless, all proclaimers of the good news are, in a general sense, evangelizers. They should certainly have the evangelizing spirit. They should declare the good news, but not stop there. They should do all they can to train and build up others so that these, in turn, can have the same strong spirit. To accomplish this they will need to use every occasion and opportunity to talk about the good news. The first-century Christians provide many examples for us.

  Blondie (not disappointed)
• 

  Blueblades

  Blondie There is not one person on the writing committee that can raise a candle to you!

  Oh how we use to be made to feel guilty when not reporting our time!So many times I had to ask the ones in my bookstudy to not forget to turn in their time.I use to work with all in my bookstudy.Many wanted to work with me in the field service.I was fully involved in the field service all the time.The field service overseer would do as little as possible and ask me to do his work.I had to finally learn to say "NO!"After reading Ray's chapter 7 FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE, in ISOCF,that did it for me.

  Now all that time is devoted to my family and rest and relaxation.
• 

  HadEnuf

  My dear Blondie:

  This article makes me glad I'm OUT!!! I don't have to sit for two Sundays and listen to how imperfect, unzealous, lazy, unspiritual and downright worthless I am. I don't have to sit and listen to how perfect, zealous, hardworking and spiritual all the elders, ministerial servants, regular pioneers, special pioneers and auxiliary pioneers are compared to me.

  I HATED FIELD SERVICE! In the over four decades that I was a member of this org...I never brought one person in by going door to door (or any other way for that matter). For this I will be eternally grateful.

  Thanks for the review Blondie!

  Cathy L.
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  Maverick

  Blondie, you are wonderful!

  Since I have been away from the J-duds many of my neighbors and acquaintances have asked me if I would like to join their little Bible Study groups. I have yet to take anyone up on their offers but I suspect this is more in line with what Jesus and the Apostles had in mind. People invite you to hear what they have to say and if your are so inclinde you go.

  Now if you are a publishing company needing a reason to exist you would want to set up a systematic method to push your product. And if you can get tax relief and free labor, all the better. Maverick
• 

  heathen

  I totally disagree that women had the same responsiblity as men in finding new converts . I also agree with minimus that a womans place is in the home especially in the times of the apostles . I couldn't imagine a man telling his wife it's ok to knock on a strangers door to sell magazines . I totally hate the way the WTBTS uses all those mind f_#$ games to give honest hearted women the notion that they need to do more and it's never enough. If some elder did that to my wife he would have a size 12 boot up his bum in short order .
• 

  cyberguy

  Thanks Blondie, once again for your examination of the Watchtower!

  However, I will suggest that, according to Ray Franz?s review of the scriptures you refer to, Paul?s going from house-to-house, was to conduct Bible studies with interested people (according to Ray?s argument). Now, whether this was the case, or rather, he was simply visiting already converted Christians, I don?t know. But we should be open to the possibility!

  Anyway, thanks again for your weekly coverage!

  Cyberguy
• 

  blondie

  Blueblades, I knew there were a few elders who actually did work with people. Not many, and as you point many elders dumped their responsibilities on others.

  I don?t miss it at all. I bet I spend more time on my review than I ever did in DTD.

  Cathy

  , isn?t it great!

  I don't have to sit for two Sundays and listen to how imperfect, unzealous, lazy, unspiritual and downright worthless I am. I don't have to sit and listen to how perfect, zealous, hardworking and spiritual all the elders, ministerial servants, regular pioneers, special pioneers and auxiliary pioneers are compared to me.

  Maverick

  , so true.

  Since I have been away from the J-duds many of my neighbors and acquaintances have asked me if I would like to join their little Bible Study groups. I have yet to take anyone up on their offers but I suspect this is more in line with what Jesus and the Apostles had in mind. People invite you to hear what they have to say and if your are so inclinde you go.

  That way it isn?t going up to complete strangers, but those you now, and is a "brief" invitation.

  Heathen,

  Actually, your wife would have been exempt. The elders were told that it was verboten to counsel a married sister, husband in or outside the organization. I noticed a big difference when I got married. The elders kept trying to counsel me through my husband. He just blew them off and never told me.

  If some elder did that to my wife he would have a size 12 boot up his bum in short order .

  But you are right about women in those times going door to door, hey, even just towards the end of the 19 th century it would have been viewed as strange.

  Hi Cyberguy (first post to my revew?)

  Yes, either way, it wasn?t a cold call on a complete stranger. I can see talking to a workmate, schoolmate, neighbor, relative, friend, etc. I found that people were more apt to listen if we already had some basis.

  Blondie
• 

  Pistoff

  Ugh, I had to sit through this stinker, and I am still reeling from it.

  At least I got to exchange clandestine cartoon balloons with the person sitting next to me. Df'd no less.

  My big gripe, spurred on by blondie's vigilant reminders, is the obsession with snippets the WT has.

  The first:

  Matt 28:19, 20. It is rendered this way:

  "Go....and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."

  What is left out? 2 important thoughts: after the word GO, the word therefore. Why is it left out? I think I know: it would refer the reader back to why Jesus is saying therefore, back to verse 18, which states that ALL authority is given Jesus on heaven and earth, a troubling idea to a jw for several reasons. It challenges doctrine that Jesus did not gain authority till 1914, and it also puts prominence on JESUS, not Jehovah.

  Secondly, they leave out "And look! I am with you until the conclusion of the system of things." Another troubling idea for us: Jesus would be present in some way for christians THE WHOLE TIME, not just after 1914. And with whom? The anointed only? Or for us "companions" as well? Hmm, what do you say Bethel?

  Small omissions but not really; they challenge the importance of Jesus in God's plan. As usual. And of course, this article is full of references to, not Christians, but worshippers of Jehovah. Sigh. I could just puke; why can't we just be christians?

  [This is reinforced in paragraph 17, where it states "how rewarding it is when our evangelizing work helps lovers of truth and righteousness (how can they love truth before they come to know it, I wonder?) to become praisers of Jehovah! (ooo that phrase again, grrrr) "You young men and also you virgins, you old men together with boys," sang the psalmist. "Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name alone is unreachably high. His dignity is above the earth and heaven." Do you notice what is happening here? The work goes from proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom, and the king Jesus, presumably, back to the mission of the OT: praise Jehovah. Again the detraction from what the NT emphasizes: the ascendance and importance of Jesus, both as human and as King. ]

  Minor pick: the reference in pp3 to "lame and paralyzed INDIVIDUALS." Is there any word more dehumanizing than individuals? They never use it to say, we are all individuals, but instead use it instead of saying PEOPLE. BAD usage.

  Minor pick: "enlarge their share". Why not just say, supersize your ministry?

  And here is my MAJOR pick with this shrill lesson: the defense for going door to door, to declare the kingdom good news, just like the apostles did. Of course they did; Jesus' life, astonishing ministry and legacy, and sacrificial death, had just happened. It lifted from the jews the horrid burden of the corrupt religious structure; it was obsolete.

  NEWS FLASH TO BETHEL: The entire stinking country knows who Jesus is!!! He is not news anymore in the sense that he was in the first century. MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CHRISTIAN!! In fact, lots of people have a much more sophisticated understanding of Jesus than we ever will. If there were truth in lending laws that applied to religious publishing, they would be forced to admit that their message is: YOUR Jesus is no good; in fact, don't talk about Jesus so much, instead talk about Jehovah (not really his name, but we say use it; we are his channel on earth ya know) you know nothing but false religious practice, you are wrong wrong wrong. You will be burned to a crisp at the big A if you do not become a witness, put in at least 10 hours a month and be very careful of ever saying anything bad about an elder or the "slave".

  THAT IS THE REAL message, that is what we preach, who are we kidding??

  Dunderheaded comment of the day #1: "The door to door work is a protection for us, because it keeps us busy doing what we should be doing, and keeps us from getting into trouble."

  Wow. Sums it all up: Busy work for you troublemakers

  Dunderheaded comment #2: (pp15) "We need to communicate to the householder that their spiritual needs are not being met without that bible study."

  Hehe, have you ever sat in on those bs's that were so bad you were aghast to be there? Spiritual needs met, hahahahaha.

  So much for each christian allowing the life, courage, sayings and sacrifice of Jesus to motivate him/her to good works towards his fellow man; so much for individual initiative and using our god given intelligence and uniqueness to emulate the courage and compassion of Jesus as we see fit. (As witnesses, if we were to challenge corruption by the elders as Jesus did, we would never again be allowed in the congregation.) So much for christians talking and expressing different views of the nature of God and his will for each one of us.

  Thanks again blondie; hats off for a great job again.
• 

  bebu

  Blondie, thanks again. What great comments.

  "Go....and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."

  What is left out? ...

  NEWS FLASH TO BETHEL: The entire stinking country knows who Jesus is!!! He is not news anymore in the sense that he was in the first century. MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CHRISTIAN!! In fact, lots of people have a much more sophisticated understanding of Jesus than we ever will. If there were truth in lending laws that applied to religious publishing, they would be forced to admit that their message is: YOUR Jesus is no good; in fact, don't talk about Jesus so much, instead talk about Jehovah (not really his name, but we say use it; we are his channel on earth ya know) you know nothing but false religious practice, you are wrong wrong wrong. You will be burned to a crisp at the big A if you do not become a witness, put in at least 10 hours a month and be very careful of ever saying anything bad about an elder or the "slave".

  THAT IS THE REAL message, that is what we preach, who are we kidding??

  Pistoff, you have some extremely good insights as well. Thanks for picking up on the above, and all the rest in your post. (You must be related to Blondie!)

  bebu
• 

  heathen

  blondie --- It would not have only been strange but very dangerous , women can be raped by some psycho and since most christians are not pro abortion it could lead to a very miserable existence for some unfortunate young lady and her husband . The same thing is just as likely to happen today . First century christians were prone to all sorts of evils such as physical violence and torture or imprisonment . I can't see any part of the apostle Paul writings that say anything other than it is a mans responsibility to publically preach the message of the messianic kingdom. I also don't believe that today women are included in the 144k as the WTBTS believes ( man did I have one strange discussion over that one with a dub , yyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeshhhhhh you would think I sprouted horns and hoofs after saying that ). But anyway I'm surprised they changed their policy on counciling women and think it a step in the right direction even tho a very small one .