What's wrong with creationism?
Observed evidence doesn't support it.
Atheist/Agnostics..you'r e in good company
by badwillie 101 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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drwtsn32
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rem
Classic! Dan is a Mormon to boot. :)
How to receive knowledge of the existence of Elves:
1) Want to believe.
2) Let that desire grow to the point where you feel the need to act upon it.
3) Read fairy tales. We recommend the Lord of the Rings and the packages of Keebler cookies.
4) Apply the commandments to your life. Obey them as best you can.
5) Pray for an assurance that what you have read is the truth, and that Elves live.
6) Want to receive an answer.
7) Repeat steps 3 - 5 until you receive an answer from the Elves.
8) Continue to repeat steps 3 - 5 throughout your life, as your faith will rise and fall with the circumstances in your life.
If you can complete these steps you will receive an answer. Until you have done it you cannot say whether it works or not. I have done it and it has worked. I invite all of you to do the same.
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drwtsn32
the Book of Mormon
At least he does have a sense of humor.
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AlanF
Good lord, a Mormon!
Mormons as people tend to be salt of the earth types, but many of their beliefs are farcical. They virtually worship Joseph Smith, who was a demonstrated charlatan and got many of his "secret" doctrines from the Freemasons.
As one person recently told me, religious charlatans tend always to get three things:
1) The Money
2) The Power
3) The sex
Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other famous Mormon leaders got plenty of all three, sort of like the way L. Ron Hubbard did via Scientology. The amazing thing is that Mormons often know all this, and a lot more dirt besides, but don't care. Who do we on this board know who acts similarly in the face of massive evidence that their religious organization is a sham?
AlanF
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dan
Try it out rem, tell me how it works. I told you it was not advised to toss pearls before people who would make fun of them. I thought maybe you would make an effort to act 28, but I was wrong.
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dan
Joseph Smith lived and died broke. He never had money. What he did have was what members of the church gave directly to him out of love.
A man asked how it was that Joseph Smith could wield so much power and not use it for his own gain. He replied, "It's because I possess the principle of love." I wish it were the same with you.
I have yet to receive any sex for being a member of the church (and I was even a branch president!). Who do I have to talk to about this?
"but many of their beliefs are farcical." Hey, it's better than being near-cical, or far-side-cicle. I bet your one of those by-cicles, right? No, maybe you're hetero-cicle.
"who was a demonstrated charlatan and got many of his "secret" doctrines from the Freemasons." Show me how he was demonstrated to be a charlatan.
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AlanF
Dan said:
: Joseph Smith lived and died broke. He never had money.
Really. According to this link, he had 33 wives: http://www.lds-mormon.com/12117.shtml . You don't support 33 wives without lots of money.
Oh I know. He gave all his money to the Church he had founded, which returned to him only what he needed. Kinda like the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell, gave all his money to the Watchtower Corporation he had founded when his ex-wife went to court for alimony, but of course he remained firmly in control of everything his religion did -- including control of its money. Which control equals power.So right here we have it all: money, power and sex.
: What he did have was what members of the church gave directly to him out of love.
Uh huh. I suppose his 33 wives gave him money from their earnings outside the home. Talk about a gigolo!
: A man asked how it was that Joseph Smith could wield so much power and not use it for his own gain.
Ooh, I see an urban legend coming.
: He replied, "It's because I possess the principle of love."
I dare say he did, having 33 wives.
: I wish it were the same with you.
I have plenty of love, but not for cultists.
: I have yet to receive any sex for being a member of the church (and I was even a branch president!).
You're not the founder, dummy.
: Who do I have to talk to about this?
If you have to ask how to go about founding a new religion so as to get money, power and sex, you can't afford it.
: "but many of their beliefs are farcical." Hey, it's better than being near-cical, or far-side-cicle. I bet your one of those by-cicles, right? No, maybe you're hetero-cicle.
A wonderfully illustrative rejoinder. Tell me, do they teach you this kind of incisive thinking in Church, or did you come by it naturally?
: "who was a demonstrated charlatan and got many of his "secret" doctrines from the Freemasons." Show me how he was demonstrated to be a charlatan.
According to a brochure I possess:
In an 1859 sermon, Brigham Young said, "... no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith... every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are -- I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation -- the keys to rule in the spirit world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit world. He reigns there as supreme a being, in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7 p. 289)
Whether someone is a Christian or not, it's obvious that Joseph Smith taught this nonsense to Brigham Young, and therefore was a charlatan.
It would be easy, but more time-consuming than I'd like, to post a few interesting tidbits about Joseph Smith and company from Walter Martin's book The Kingdom of the Cults.
Now, Danny Boy, most anyone on this board will tell you that whenever JWs come on this discussion board, and I confront them with information that proves that Jehovah's Witnesses are a nasty cult, they get their little bottoms burned but good. My expertise is not in the cult of Mormonism, but I have certain friends who are experts, who I'm sure would be glad to enter our discussion and hand you your head. So I suggest you go away before your faith is shaken off its foundations.
AlanF
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dan
Those experts of yours don't know squat about the Church. All they know is a bunch of crap they're breastfed by a bunch of hate ongers with PCs. I'm gonna point out every single lie that you tried to pawn off as truth in your last post, and every time you try to do it in the future I'm going to point it out. You know nothing of Joseph Sith or his life. Please don't pretend to be something you're not.
"According to this link, he had 33 wives: http://www.lds-mormon.com/12117.shtml . You don't support 33 wives without lots of money."
This is a lie. No one knows how many wives Joseph Smith had, and they were supported by the Church. He was utterly broke his entire life.
"So right here we have it all: money, power and sex."
How do you get from some JW to a conclusion about money, sex and power? Another red herring.
"Uh huh. I suppose his 33 wives gave him money from their earnings outside the home."
Another lie. The church supported them, as I stated above. Joseph Smith took nothing from them.
"I have plenty of love, but not for cultists."
1) What is the definition of the word "cult"?
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents2) I John 4:20
"You're not the founder, dummy."
A lie. I am not dumb.
"According to a brochure I possess:"
This is exactly my point. You are not content with letting others have their faith, as they do you. You went out and purchased a brochure from someone who's motive was hate. You now own a piece of literature that exists only to make others hate. You spew forth this hate with such self-righteous indignation that Christ himself must weep at the obvious failure of His Spirit to permeate your thick skull. I have yet to tell another man what he believes. I have yet to criticize another man for what he believes. I have yet to bring hate or insults into the equation; and yet you stew in a life full of hate. Your aim is to destroy the JWs, while you surround yourself with people who want to destroy the Mormons. Do you actually believe that your actions are sanctioned by the Man who lived and died preaching acceptance and love?
"So I suggest you go away before your faith is shaken off its foundations."
Your presumptuousness is foul, and your attitude disgusts me. You could no more shake my faith than you could rope the moon. Here's the funny thing: every single piece of anti-mormon propoganda that you (or your expert friends) have ever read or that you will ever read; I have heard it twenty times before. You do not, nor will you ever have access to as much material as I have had to discredit the Church. I could show you things that you could never have dreamed of. I could shake the faith of half the mormons in this country before you could get one to look twice at you. I joined this church because I prayed to God and I got an answer. You don't believe me, but I'm not asking you to. There is not a power on earth or in Hell that could make me think twice about my faith, so when you say stuff like that you invite upon yourself more trouble than you're ready for. Well, son, I invite you to make good on your claim. You told me you were going to shake me, so do it. If you fail you will be shown to be nothing but a pompous lier. I'd like to point out that I have yet to even enquire of the nature of your faith, because I believe that every man has a right to exercise his faith; and I would never overstep my bounds to try to take that from you.
Let's see what you got.
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rem
Dan,
>>Try it out rem, tell me how it works. I told you it was not advised to toss pearls before people who would make fun of them. I thought maybe you would make an effort to act 28, but I was wrong.
You make a lot of assumptions yet you really don't know my history. I completed steps 7 and 8 for years. I prayed and I cried for god. According to your formula I should just keep doing those steps indefinitely. Sorry, but I don't have time for that.
What if a Hindu tells me I have to do steps 7 and 8 indefinitely to find Brahmma? There is not enough time in one lifetime to test every extraordinary claim in the world indefinitely. You will have to come up with a more efficacious method or at least provide me with some time of time limit so I know when to stop wasting my time. All you have provided me is a non-falsifiable method. Pearls they are not.
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rem
>> every single piece of anti-mormon propoganda that you (or your expert friends) have ever read or that you will ever read; I have heard it twenty times before. You do not, nor will you ever have access to as much material as I have had to discredit the Church. I could show you things that you could never have dreamed of. I could shake the faith of half the mormons in this country before you could get one to look twice at you. I joined this church because I prayed to God and I got an answer. You don't believe me, but I'm not asking you to. There is not a power on earth or in Hell that could make me think twice about my faith, so when you say stuff like that you invite upon yourself more trouble than you're ready for.
I really wouldn't brag about that. Being closed minded isn't really considered a virtue. :)
rem
