The grain, the chaff and the straw

A Paduan

In it's efforts to maintain literal understandings, does the jw religion not determine the difference in a story between the grain, the chaff and straw?

Straw is important indeed - Can grain grow without the stalk?
One can be a user of straw - make earthly wares, hard bricks, even a tower.
Harvesting is a matter of work, the grain and chaff are threshed out. ( "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?)
Even after threshing it out, it is put to the wind to separate the grain from the chaff.
Once the grain is harvested, some is replanted in the earth again, and some is milled with stone, baked and eaten.

Question for discussion - how is it that the Word is the bread of life?

A Paduan

Is this place for bible things or history research ?

peacefulpete

Tell us what the point under discussion is. Do you want to encourage free and noncontextual interpretataion of parables or are you condemning it?

To start things off lightly; the word is similar to the bread of life
in the following ways.

Early on it is unleavened; this means that it is hard to partake and very little
has been added to it, and it is used to remind some of the journey taken by others
before them.

If left to sit longer it rises from exposure to levening agents in the environment; this
could mean that it becomes easier on the palette but has been contaminated by outside
influences, this could be both good or bad depending on what one wanted.

If left out too long before baking it rises to its full mass then eventually starts to grow
things not intended by the baker; this means that while it has some unexpected uses (i.e. rudimentary
antibiotics) it is very unpalatable and most end up turning away from it.

Just my amature opinion

Goshawk

peacefulpete

white bread or wheat?

A Paduan

Do you want to encourage free and noncontextual interpretataion of parables or are you condemning it?

I intended to encourage a discussion about particular biblical words, and the study of nature that teaches spirituality - oh, and to gain verification that the wtbts does not learn spirituality through natural observance.

Goshawk - thanks for that - enlightening - I hadn't really thought about that aspect of bread.

Leolaia

We today talk about mixing metaphors as a bad thing. I think we should be careful not to confuse the different illustrations being used. There is some concordance between the metaphor of the word (logos) being preached to a seed (sperma) that is planted (Mark 4:14), and the harvest in disciples (Mark 4:16-20), but these are all features of the same parabolic interpretation. A similar metaphor occurs in 1 Corinthians 3:6-8, 9:7, where Christians are regarded as planters. In Paul and Hebrews, however, the harvest is not so much the disciples themselves but the righteousness they develop within themselves (cf. Romans 1:13; 2 Corinthians 9:10; Galatians 6:9; Hebrews 12:11). Or are material blessings also being harvested? (1 Corinthians 9:10-11) Then when is the harvest? In John, the harvest occurs right then and there (John 4:35-36), while in Matthew 13:39 "the harvest is the end of the age". Of course, since early Christians believed they were living at the end-times, there is really no contrast. But there is in terms of harvesters. In Matthew 13:39, the harvesters are the angels, in Revelation 14:14-16 the harvester is the Son of Man, while in Matthew 9:37-38, 21:34-41; Luke 10:2; Romans 1:13, the harvesters are the apostles and disciples. We see that varying harvest metaphors and conceptions are being used. Then there are different metaphors relating to bread and leaven. Whereas the "seed" is the word in Mark 4:14, bread (artos) is the word in Matthew 4:3-4 (and symbolized in deed in 15:32-39), John has a related but different concept of Jesus himself being the "bread of life" (John 6:33-35, 51), and it represents his body in the Last Supper (cf. Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 10:16), while it represents Jesus' cures, blessings, or ministry in Matthew 15:26. Then the leaven could represent good things like the kingdom of God (Matthew 13:33; Luke 13:20-21), or bad things like the corrupt commands of the Pharisees or malice and wickedness (Matthew 16:6, 11-12; Mark 8:15; 1 Corinthians 5:6-8). In this vein, note that when Jesus calls himself the "bread of life", he uses the word artos for regular bread and not azumos "unlaevened bread". So one should take each text on its own terms, rather in indulge in "free and noncontextual interpretation" as PP put it.

peacefulpete

'study of nature that teaches spirituality"

I feel passionately that nature teaches us nothing about value judgments or ethics (and these are what constitutes 'spirituality' to me). The rest is poetry and polemic

A Paduan

Peaceful Pete

nature teaches us nothing about value judgments or ethics (and these are what constitutes 'spirituality' to me).

Spirituality is 'spiritual' - not 'morals', but spirit - and yes, nature teaches me spirituality - admittedly incorporeality helps in judgement - ie. when Babylon (possession) is no more. the spiritual man judges all things, but is himself judged by no one

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Leolaia

I hear no "mixing of metaphor" regardless of these contexts.

The sower sows the word in earth (man, ie. dust to dust) - the seed is 'word' - the harvest (Mark 4:16-20) is not in disciples in the sense of bodies/dust, but in the types of growth from them, (it is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body), it is God who gives the growth, the spiritual man grows toward the light - this language has been spoken long ago ( Genesis 3:18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you - ie. cares of the world )

Or are material blessings also being harvested? (1 Corinthians 9:10-11) Then when is the harvest?

Poignant - and I ask, when an oxen treads out the grain, does the oxen eat the grain, or straw? Thanks for bringing that point to bear - there's certainly more to the straw than I had been contemplating.

I agree, as you say, that the disciples, apostles and angels, and even the Son of man do harvest. "When Jesus heard him, he marveled....." or "there is more joy etc"

John has a related but different concept of Jesus himself being the "bread of life"

As I previously mentioned, I don't believe that the 'concepts' are different - (and Paul knew too well).

it represents his body in the Last Supper (cf. Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 10:16), while it represents Jesus' cures, blessings, or ministry in Matthew 15:26

Did the apostles eat his physical self, or does it not represent His spirituality on both occasions?

Then the leaven could represent good things like the kingdom of God (Matthew 13:33; Luke 13:20-21), or bad things like the corrupt commands of the Pharisees or malice and wickedness (Matthew 16:6, 11-12; Mark 8:15; 1 Corinthians 5:6-8).

In Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21 the kingdom is hidden in what indeed is leavened.

when Jesus calls himself the "bread of life", he uses the word artos for regular bread and not azumos "unlaevened bread

I wonder. Does artos mean leavened bread, or more simply - 'bread'?

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For my "non-contextual" understanding, I find it hard to put it into words - it is what is spoken, and how I hear it - it's a language.

A Paduan

Back to the grain and bread - some is resown and some ground for bread

What does it mean "this is my body which is given up for you" ?

The grain, the chaff and the straw

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