They were here. venting. I sure could use real friends. Do they exist?

by avengers 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • avengers
    avengers

    Seems the more contact I have with the WT the more angry I get. I wish they would just go away.

    Please bear with me. There are more issues at hand about which I posted earlier.
    I cannot give updates on these delicate matters for fear of serious repurcussions.
    Some of you might remember what I'm talking about. (barf, barf, barf) Even if I haven't given any updates on this forum
    doesn't mean I have not been working on it. Things are coming to a head. I have to be very careful.
    As soon as I can I will inform you, but for now the next matter:

    It really disturbs me that the WT sends its slaves door to door. They abused me for 30 years and are still
    abusing part of my family by doing this. I never knew what hate was until I discovered the inner-workings
    of this society. It's bad enough though that they do this, but it gets even worse when they come uncalled to the
    house and call you a liar. That really pisses me off.

    Day before yesterday two ladies visited me and offered me the usual toiletpaper.
    I asked if the WT was ever engaged in politics. "Ofcourse not", was the answer.
    "Do you think they would ever have anything to do with the UN?", was my question back.
    A resolute "Never", was the answer.

    "Did you know that the WT registered as NGO with the DPI at the UN?".
    Answer from the ladies: "They would never to that. Never. We don't engage in politics and I don't
    believe that they signed up with the UN."

    So that makes me a liar.

    This pisses me off. And why does it piss me off?

    The people that go from door to door are misinformed by the GB.
    Even though this UN matter is public domain the R & F are ignorant of it.
    How can the Watchtower allow so called "ordained ministers" to visit people
    and present false information to them.

    Not just these two ladies knew nothing about the UN issue, but three men appeared and they
    also knew nothing about the UN issue.
    Actually they called me the liar even though they are the ones kept in the dark.
    I thought this wouldn't bother me but I guess it does.

    I was thinking of presenting this matter to "Bethel", but if I did I would probably be DFed.
    DF actually means nothing to me, but my girls (daughters) then wouldn't talk to me anymore.
    So even though I'm out they still control part of my life.
    What the GB is actually saying is: "You come out with the truth then we will seperate you
    from your family". This way they force me to shut up.

    Thank you for letting me vent this. This board is a "God sent". (get it? God sent lol)

    Oh yeah. When they were hurriedly leaving they managed to say that they will put me
    on the "no visit" list. Thank you WT for your "deep concern"

    Andy

  • blondie
    blondie

    Andy, let me say this having been a JW for over 40 years and having had people at the door make "accusations" about the WTS that I had never heard abou, my first response would have been perhaps the person misunderstood the situation and asked what the source of the information was of their conclusion. If it was from reading material written by ex-JWs or relgious groups actively opposing the WTS, I would shut down mentally.

    That is what I did when confronted with the story of "miracle wheat" for the first time. But I went home and researched it in the WTS publications and found that it was true. That opened the door a crack.

    Then I had a Bible study with 2 people who asked me to answer 2 questions for them from the Bible, were Michael and Jesus the same person and what was the fulfillment of the 2300 days in prophecy. I found the WTS information confusing and convoluted and was embarrassed that I could not explain it. I even asked an elder I respected (not many of those) and all he did was hand me a photocopy of a WT article 30 years old without explaining the "logiic" in it. That opened the door even wider.

    After getting the internet I decided to search it for answers to those questions as well as another "seed" planted in my mind by the same couple about Mexico and Malawi.

    I was led to H2O and reading there opened the door even more.

    Then the child abuse situation, Bill Bowen and Silentlambs made the news. Now that really opened my eyes to the fact that my situation was not unique, the actions of a few bad elders, but was a widespread problem.

    What I'm trying to illustrate, it takes time and many instances of opening the door a little wider before true-believing JWs will see the point.

    I have been readng Steve Hassan's book, Combatting Cult Mind Controll, and it is amazing how you will see the WTS in his descriptions even though he never mentions it by name. He shows how you can help people trapped in a cult be able to look at what they believe without getting defensive. He gives examples of how he has done it.

    So don't despair, maybe some of it penetrated. The important thing is not to be too confrontational. I invite everyone to get a coppy and read it if you haven't already.

    Sample Cover

    http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm

    Blondie

  • avengers
    avengers

    Hey Blondie.
    Thanks for your concern.
    I'm sorry if I sounded disturbed, but there have been too many things going on
    and these dubbs at the door just made the bucket run over.

    You remember the topic I started a while back about the pedophile? (I'm not giving a link
    because matters about this are slowly coming to a head, and it would be too dangerous to
    discuss at this moment).

    I discovered more things about this man and it sickens me .
    More about that later.

    Again ..thanks.

  • Cicatrix
    Cicatrix

    "I was thinking of presenting this matter to "Bethel", but if I did I would probably be DFed.
    DF actually means nothing to me, but my girls (daughters) then wouldn't talk to me anymore.
    So even though I'm out they still control part of my life.
    What the GB is actually saying is: "You come out with the truth then we will seperate you
    from your family"."

    I hear ya, Avenger. Something similar may be happening to me right now, and I AM DA'd.

    In answer to your question do real friends exist-yes they do. But real friends don't try to control you, nor do they side with people or organisations who are trying to control you.

    We all have our breaking points. Sometimes I think JWs make it a mission to try and find them, so they can make us out to be the "evil apostates" (their religion must have scapegoats for it to be valid).I've worked hard since I was out not to let them goad me into behavior they can point to as being "typical" of apostates. But it never seems to end. Now I understand why so many have gone on the defense.

    Just keep in mind, Avenger, most of society DOES agree with us about the JWs. I've opened up to some of my new friends, and their understanding and support helps a lot.

  • galaxy7
    galaxy7
    After getting the internet I decided to search it for answers to those questions as well as another "seed" planted in my mind by the same couple about Mexico and Malawi.

    Blondie, Is there an earlier thread on this? I dont know anything about this (Mexico &Malawi)

  • Mary
    Mary
    When they were hurriedly leaving they managed to say that they will put me on the "no visit" list.

    And why pray tell would they want to do that?? You never requested that..........unbelievable how their mindset is. The second anyone says something against the religion to which they have no answer, they warning bells go off like the robot in Lost in Space "warning, warning, danger, danger...."

    I'm glad you said something to them though. Obviously these women were'nt aware of the UN scandal. Who knows, you may have planted a seed of doubt in their minds...........

  • blondie
    blondie

    Oooh, Galaxy7,

    After getting the internet I decided to search it for answers to those questions as well as another "seed" planted in my mind by the same couple about Mexico and Malawi.
    Blondie, Is there an earlier thread on this? I dont know anything about this (Mexico &Malawi)

    Tons of them. It refers to some points in Ray Franz' books. Maybe we can get someone to post them here; I'm at work and can't look.

  • Perry
    Perry

    I tried to cut and paste a brief synopsis for you Galaxy but it didn't work. I think you can find some info at www.freeminds.org.

    Perry

  • TweetieBird
    TweetieBird

    To Blondie

    "That is what I did when confronted with the story of "miracle wheat" for the first time. But I went home and researched it in the WTS publications and found that it was true. That opened the door a crack."

    Please elaborate...I've been hanging around this board for a couple of years and have never heard anything about this. What is the story of miracle wheat?

  • blondie
    blondie

    Tweetiebird, here is a Bible Student site that lists all the articles where miracle wheat is mentioned.

    http://reslight.addr.com/miraclewheat.html

    Read them over and form your own conclusion.

    Following are WTS comments:

    ***

    w53 5/15 p. 319 Questions from Readers ***

    Questions

    from Readers

    ?

    Are the charges in a tract against Jehovah?s witnesses true that the Society?s first president was immoral, profiteered from selling some mysteriously named wheat at $65 a bushel, and committed perjury when asked in court if he could read Greek??C. W., North Carolina.

    No. They were deliberate falsehoods. No immoral action was ever proved against the Watchtower Society?s first president, Charles Taze Russell. In a suit for separate maintenance Mrs. Russell?s attorney said, "We make no charge of adultery"; and Mrs. Russell, who went to all ends to discredit her husband (her main objection was that he would not let her control the Watchtower magazine?s policy), specifically said she did not accuse him of immorality. When critics who did not know him thought they could take portions of the trial and malign his good name, he swore: "I never was guilty of immorality toward any person. . . . Further, I have never desired to do so." Those who knew him personally highly respected his integrity. J. F. Rutherford, one who was sufficiently convinced of the importance of the Christian work Brother Russell did to likewise devote his life and funds to it, and who succeeded Russell as the Society?s president, said at Russell?s funeral: "Truly it can be said that Pastor Russell?s character was and is without blemish."

    The facts about "Miracle Wheat" are equally perverted. Brother Russell was interested in anything related to the Scriptural prediction that the desert would blossom as a rose and the earth yield her increase. So, when the public press reported a new and unusual strain of wheat, called "Miracle Wheat" by its original grower, Brother Russell reported this in The Watchtower, along with a government report on it. Some Watchtower readers contacted the grower, who was in no way connected with the Watchtower Society, and purchased some of the wheat. When theirs produced seed they offered it as a contribution to the Society. The original grower sold the seed at $1.25 a pound, so they suggested their contribution be priced at $1.00, and all the money received be given to the Society. The Society made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge, though it won several State Fair grand prizes before it wore itself out. Brother Russell neither named it nor profited from it; the money went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were told that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned, and the money was held for a year for this purpose. Not a single person requested it back. The only critics were those who had no real knowledge of the matter, which was purely a donation sale for the benefit of the Society?as open and aboveboard as a church cake sale.

    The "perjury" charge was not made in court, but in a tract written later by an irresponsible slanderer against whom Brother Russell had brought a libel case. The official record of the case in question (Police Court of the City of Hamilton, Ontario, March 17, 1913) says: "Q. You don?t profess, then, to be schooled in the Latin language? A. No, sir. Q. Or in Greek? A. No, sir." After this he was asked if he knew individual Greek letters, and it was over this that the question of his knowledge of Greek arose. This false "perjury" claim has been repeated by many who never went to this Canadian city to check this old court record to see if they are spreading truth or a lie. Not only has the question they "quote" been reworded, but Brother Russell had specifically said that he did not know Greek.

    The extent to which critics will deliberately falsify such quotations is shown in another tract that says Jehovah?s witnesses deny the ransom and tries to support this with a quotation from Volume 5, page 127, of the Studies in the Scriptures: "Jesus? suffering would not pay the debt of sin." Here is what the book actually says: "True, the wages of sin was not suffering, but death; and hence suffering on our Lord?s part would not alone pay the wages of sin for us: it was absolutely necessary that he should ?taste death for every man.?" The book says exactly the opposite of what the tract claims it says.

    With such lies and perverted facts the critics condemn themselves. They would not like to be classed with the ultramodernists who accuse Jesus of being illegitimate, but they stoop equally low regarding other men whose lives were spent unselfishly in God?s service.

    ***

    yb75 pp. 70-71 United States of America (Part One) ***

    MIRACLE

    WHEAT

    Foes of C. T. Russell used not only his domestic affairs but other "weapons" against him. For instance, his enemies have charged that he sold a great quantity of ordinary wheat seed under the name of "Miracle Wheat" at one dollar per pound, or sixty dollars per bushel. They have held that from this Russell realized an enormous personal profit. However, these charges are absolutely false. What are the facts?

    In 1904 Mr. K. B. Stoner noticed an unusual plant growing in his garden in Fincastle, Virginia. It turned out to be wheat of an uncommon kind. The plant had 142 stalks and each bore a head of fully matured wheat. In 1906 he named it "Miracle Wheat." Eventually others obtained and grew it, enjoying extraordinary yields. In fact, Miracle Wheat won prizes at several fairs. C. T. Russell was very interested in anything related to the Biblical predictions that "the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose" and "the earth shall yield her increase." (Isa. 35:1; Ezek. 34:27, AV) On November 23, 1907, H. A. Miller, Assistant Agriculturalist of the United States Government, filed in the Department of Agriculture a report commending this wheat grown by Mr. Stoner. Throughout the country the public press took note of the report. C. T. Russell?s attention was drawn to it, and so in Zion?s Watch Tower of March 15, 1908, on page 86, he published some press comments and extracts from the government report. Then, in conclusion, he commented: "If this account be but one-half true it testifies afresh to God?s ability to provide things needful for the ?times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began.??Acts 3:19-21."

    Mr. Stoner was not a Bible Student or an associate of C. T. Russell, and neither were various other persons who experimented with Miracle Wheat. In 1911, however, Watch Tower readers J. A. Bohnet of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Samuel J. Fleming of Wabash, Indiana, presented to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the aggregate of about thirty bushels of this wheat, proposing that it be sold for one dollar per pound and that all the proceeds be received by the Society as a donation from them, to be used in its religious work. The wheat was received and sent out by the Society and the gross receipts from it amounted to about $1,800. Russell himself did not get a penny of this money. He merely published a statement in The Watch Tower to the effect that the wheat had been contributed and could be obtained for a dollar a pound. The Society itself made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge and the money received went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were informed that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned. In fact, the identical money received for the wheat was held for a year for that purpose. But not one person asked for a refund. The conduct of Brother Russell and the Society in connection with Miracle Wheat was completely open and aboveboard.

    Because Charles Taze Russell taught the truth from God?s Word, he was hated and maligned, often by the religious clergy. But then, Christians of modern times expect such treatment, for Jesus and his apostles were dealt with similarly by religious opposers.?Luke 7:34.

    Other comments from the Web:

    http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/defense.htm#WHEAT

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