Coincidences?

by Agent 1 of 1 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  truthseeker1

  ahh, but they're not trying hard enough. it takes weeks to open a portal into the spirit realm and summon forth an angel.
• 

  Agent 1 of 1

  Thanks everyone for replying. To the ones that answered my questions, I just want you to know I wasn't looking for answers to them. I was hoping there would be more questions that others have pondered upon. A few have asked them and I thank them for this. These are all great opinions that have been presented and that's what they are, opinions.

  Truthseeker, thanks for your input. I agree with you regarding having full evidence. I mean, how can we expect to not deceive ourselves without it. Why is it that throughout all ages, everybody is always arguing about truth. Why can't we just have it straight in front of us? Or is that what makes us all humans? Oi, I just love this subject. Thanks again for all the replies everyone. Keep them coming.
• 

  gods vigilante

  I'd like to put in my own two pennies. Hmmm... they're probably not even worth that much. But I find it funny that we could all go blue to the face arguing back and forth and get nowhere because "Heck... I'm right and he's wrong." It's with this type of attitude that makes me wonder why we exist in the first place. All I can figure is that God is some kid with an ant farm like in a Far Side cartoon. If our life depends upon our "faith" in God, then why do we have such a short life span and only really given a chance to look at one or two religions? If we're even given that chance in the first place. Now, I don't want to go too far with this subject because frankly, many people reading this right now are red to the face or they are nodding their head in agreement. One way or another we will still argue and debate. And if maybe some slight chance we could all just stop and actually look at what's really going on then we might be able to overcome many problems on this earth. All we have to do is realize what we know as indeniable proof. Anybody know of any indeniable proof? Even if it sounds childish and that eeeeeverybody knows that, let's start with that then.
• 

  LittleToe

  Truth:
  On the contrary, they're probably trying too hard, as is often reported to be the case even in mystic circles.

  So what you're telling me is that the strong evidence "I" have can be completely ignored by you, because I'm just reporting it?
  So, for another example, I guess that if atrocities are commited and thousands escape and report about it, but the evidence has completely disappeared when the scientists go in....
  ...it never happened

  Rem:
  Thanks for your opinion as to the strength of anecdotal evidence.

  Just as a point of note. If I saw a guy running around with all sorts of wires and equipment hanging off him, looking for my invisible butt, I'd hide from the b*gger for sheer devilment...
  
• 

  El blanko

  Seeing that for almost 100 years scientific experiments in the field of parapsychology have found no evidence

  .. and what about the 100s of years before the last 100 years? Also, what about the experiences that others have NOW that are never investigated and just simply vanish? Like, ahem, friends of mine ... or do you think my friends are liars and fraudsters out for money and gain?

  Also, if we are dealing with higher intelligence, then OBVIOUSLY, a group of shortsighted materialistic scientists are not going to be able to pin them down (as LT hinted at).

  I suggest you read a few well researched books on the subject and do not simply trust the version of reality that most admire and subscribe to.
• 

  El blanko

  ahh, but they're not trying hard enough. it takes weeks to open a portal into the spirit realm and summon forth an angel.

  You mock me sir ... I shall summon forth a hideous entity to play with your toes at night
• 

  rem

  El Blanko,
  
  No, I'm not suggesting that all of your friends are liars or fraudsters. There are many many explanations for reports of paranormal and spiritual events. Lying and exaggeration are important contriubutors for sure, but psychological illusions and sensory perception errors are probably more often to blame. The neat thing is - scientific experiments are in agreement with this time and time again.
  
  And I think you have a misconception about the scientists trying to find spiritual phenomenon. For the most part they aren't cynical, skeptical buggers - those types don't usually waste their time with the subject. On the contrary, the field of parapsychology is filled with believers who yearn to find evidence of their convictions. Time and time again they have been let down. Many former believers have turned into non-believers because of this lack of evidence.
  
  Little Toe,
  
  I think that if you are honest with yourself you will find that you have the same opinion of anecdotal evidence, because in reality all it is is common sense. I think that you have let your irrational beliefs cloud your better judgement when it comes to the particular topic of spirituality and the paranormal. If someone told you they know of tons of people being cured of cancer by hopping on one foot for 24 hours, I'm sure you'd be skeptical... but when someone says something similar about the paranormal, you become incredibly credulous.
  
  Also, I find it interesting that nothing has been found after all these years. Sure, maybe the spirits are hiding (a nonfalsifiable theory that begs the question of whether there are spirits in the first place)... but just think about cryptozoology for a second:
  
  There are many anecdotes about mythical and real animals that lurk in the jungle. Some are amazing, like the abonimable snowman, and some are more prozaic, like certain shy species of cat or ape. After years of searching, the Yetti is yet to be found, but many other extremely rare and shy animals have been documented. This leads a rational person to believe that the Yetti is most probably a myth. I believe there is a strong analog here with spirits. Scientists have searched - and found many exotic elements and sub-particles that were previously theorized. Yet no ghost has ever been captured and analyzed - even though John Edwards seems to have no problem channeling them in.
  
  See, an anecdote may be a reason to start looking for something in a controlled way, but it is not in any way evidence that something exists. If people complained that scientists never looked for ghosts based on anecdotes, then they would have a point... but the fact is that sincere believing scientists HAVE searched for years and found nothing. The anecdotes were not ignored... but after a while you just have to accept that your belief based only on anecdotes is irrational - just like believing in the Lock Ness Monster.
  
  rem
• 

  LittleToe

  Rem:You miss the point, in my own instance.
  I've seen and done many of the things I support.

  In your shoes I might be just as skeptical of merely anecdotal evidence (then again, maybe not).

  As for hopping being anti-carcenogenic... that's a new one on me
• 

  rem

  Little Toe,
  
  Anything's possible, right? ;)
  
  I see what you mean, but I have also had spiritual/paranormal experiences. Perhaps they didn't touch me in the same way as to leave such a lasting impression, or maybe the rational side of me is just more prominent in my psychie.
  
  If you personally hopped and your cancer went into remission, it would be very difficult for you to not believe the hopping was the cause. Humans are very good at finding patterns and hypothesising cause and effect. Unfortunately, many times our first instinct of cause and effect are wrong due to perception illusions (it's common enough to be a logical fallacy) - and only controlled statistical analysis can determine this.
  
  So it is completely possible (and likely) that someone who's cancer goes into remission after hopping will come to an incorrect conclusion of cause and effect. The problem is that resting on our instincts doesn't necessarily get us to the truth of the matter. Maybe there is a real reason why your cancer went into remission that had nothing to do with hopping. Without scientific investigation we'll never know - and the possible benefits to mankind are lost.
  
  I guess my point is that personal experience - or 1st hand anecdotes can be misleading as well. A sample of one is not enough to come to an accurate conclusion. More samples are needed - but other similar anecdotes from other people do not count as an increased sample size because there is no way to controll for extraneous variables.
  
  In the case of hopping, the answer may be found (with a large enough sample size) - and it may just be that a small random sample will always go into remission, whether they hopped or not. It's just that the people who hopped spread their anecdotes more efficiently.
  
  The same with spiritual experiences. Maybe there is a population of people who are just more susceptable to perception illusions than others? Maybe there really is a phenomenon? Without hard data, there is now way to tell. Interestingly scientific studies and experiments have shown that there are people who are more susceptable to such illusions than others and even more interestingly, this population has a strong correlation with believers in spiritual phenomenon.
  
  rem
• 

  Farkel

  carmel

  : .What is a mirical? How do you know that there are not thousand of miricals being performed every day?

  How do you know that there are not dozens of invisible purple unicorns speaking to me right now? Can you disprove that statement.

  Ergo, one cannot disprove a negative. It's a logical fallacy, and one often used by religious apologists.

  Farkel