Why your vote could make a difference in this year's Federal election.

by talesin 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Bryan

  talesin,

  I do agree that many people need help. I also think it should be the right of every human being to have access to a doctor.

  My problem is that here in the US (and other countries) we have created a social system that encourages people not to work. A woman who is not married and and unemployed, receives a check every month and the amount of the check is determined by the amount of kinds she has, and this leads some single uneducated mothers to feel to have more children is good to raise their salary (check). I personaly feel our government should be helping to train her for career and give her child care during this process. I have been low in my life several times... I have collected food stamps because I could not afford to feed myself. And the one thing I noticed is that when you get into this situation, you loose your self esteme. And that can easily keep you down and dependant even longer.

  I am in no way against helping people who really need it.

  Bryan
• 

  talesin

  Yes, Bryan,

  **I personaly feel our government should be helping to train her for career and give her child care during this process. **

  This is so true. I once saw a documentary on 60 Minutes, talking about social programs. It focussed on welfare, and analyzed the costs. Less than 1% of the budget was spent on it. Surprising, huh? But it is a TRAP, that is so true.

  The focus needs to shift to education, getting people out of the system and offering them real, good paying jobs. And changing the way we value work in our society.

  I have long felt that we should pay a 'living wage' to folks, as opposed to a 'starvation wage'. I mean, should one starve just because one flips burgers, so to speak? I mean, SOMEONE has to do it. They should make enough to have a reasonable lifestyle. The capitalistic system does not value each person for the work they do. We are in a real mess right now, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Sad.

  The whole system is flawed, and imho, we should be attacking the system, the big money-making corporations, and the politicians who kowtow to them, instead of the poor and each other. Yes, they are in a big hole, and many just don't know how to get out of it.

  *sigh* Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

  t

  PS to TaiChi,,, check out some of the recent (in the last 12 months) scandals concerning our new Prime Minister (Paul Martin) and the over $130 million his family business received from the govt (big cover-up exposed), as well as the VIA rail scandal, where the govt has been paying for non-existent advertising. Makes ya wonder where the money is REALLY going...
• 

  Bryan

  We seemed to be on the same page though I do embrace the Capitalistic System. I believe you work hard you make more, you get a good education, you make more. Burger flipping was great for me at 15 and I think that is a great place for young ones to get their first taste of a job outside of painting the fence at home.

  Personaly, I would like to see a usage tax and or flat tax. Everyone should pay some tax, and if you have a flat tax, your wealthy and corperations would not be able to deduct their way out of the tax burden.

  They haven't paid any taxes for decades!

  This is extreme I agree, but I'm sure if they payed the taxes they simply pass the extra expense down to the consumer. That's the real problem with increasing the wages. Many people who eat fast food do so because it's cheap. You start paying the burger fliper $10 an hour, you have to raise the cost of the burger or the company will go bust. Now the burgers are so expensive, those who normaly eat there can no longer aford it. It's just a big cycle.

  Bryan
• 

  ThiChi

  ? The top 10% of returns ($88,000 and up) paid 66% of all taxes, yet made only 45% of all income.
  ? The other 90% of all returns (below $88,000) paid only 33% of all taxes, yet made 55% of all income.
  ? And 48% of all returns required no payment of tax at all, or received a tax credit.

  Yeah, gotta make "the rich" pay their "fair share."

  In Canada, it's only the better off who fork out more
  By Rosemary Speirs
  Feature writer
  November 6, 1999 Toronto Star

  ...In Canada, governments tax upper middle-income earners and the rich much more stiffly, and go easier on those with lower incomes. The poor, and those in the lower middle-income ranges, end up with more in their pockets in this country than they do in the States....
• 

  talesin

  Yes, Bryan, we are on the same page for the most part. I was just using the 'burger flipper' term, but meaning more broadly, those who work in retail (the clerks), typists in private companies, non-union labourers, etc. And it IS possible to work one's way out of poverty, but I *think* that for the average child born in the projects, for example, hopelessness would be a way of life that is ingrained. We can't all be near the top of the food chain. We are in a real mess!

  TaiChi

  Let me reflect on this, do a little digging of my own, will get back to you.

  The last stat, I would say reflects the working poor, who pay about 23% directly out of their paycheques, so either break even or get a small refund.

  The other two:

  ? The top 10% of returns ($88,000 and up) paid 66% of all taxes, yet made only 45% of all income.
  ? The other 90% of all returns (below $88,000) paid only 33% of all taxes, yet made 55% of all income.

  I would be interested to know what the super-rich are paying in proportion to what they are earning, eg, the Irvings, the Stronachs, etc. and their ilk. I think Bryan's suggestion of a flat rate, is a good one. NO tax breaks allowed for anyone.

  The stats --> if 90% of the people are making 55% of the income, they are living on a hell of a lot less per household than the 10% that are making 45% of all income. Do you see where it becomes a numbers game?

  A big issue in Canada, too, is the banks! and other large corporations (especially insurance companies at the moment) as well, not paying a fair amount of taxes, cutting staff, etc., yet still reporting huge annual profits.

  Good debate, it's refreshing. I have some company coming soon for the evening, but will see what I can dig up, may be a day or so.

  tal