Man is designed to be God-oriented, shows new scientific study! (page 2)

John_Mann

Almost everyone who meditates are agnostic at least.

LoveUniHateExams

You say: “But animals suffer from cancer, too. This is not 'amazing'. It is sick.”

In our observation, there is answer to all questions. Be an objective observer—you will find one thing leading to another which in turn lead to another—there is nothing called good or bad, but just consequences. If you are a keen observer even into subtle areas, then you know that your thoughts and emotions travel faster and more powerful than your words. When someone is angry with you, you can sense it even without he expresses it through some ways visible or invisible. That means everything is connected, it’s just one whole. All cultures and religions retain the memory of a golden age that once existed here on earth. That time, it was like one world, one family—with peace even among animals. When man turned egoistic, divisive … positive environment changed accordingly, even among the animals leading into the present situation as you described. This will again change into previous glory in its own time—it is a cycle like day and night, or like seasons. Yet you may have heard people asking:

• How is it possible for God to allow so much suffering in the world?

• Oh my God! For how long do I have to endure this experience?

• There is so much injustice in this world. ‘Good’ people get to suffer and ‘bad’ people get to enjoy life!

• The above phrases are very common nowadays. Atheists usually like phrase #1.

• Unconscious people number 2.

• The last one is usually uttered by ‘moralists in pain.’

When the perception we have about the world is of continuous suffering and pain, our minds become sick and mental diseases will arrive at one point or another. Too much emotional pain is unbearable and the mind protects itself by disconnecting from a painful ‘reality’. That is why it is important to learn the art of ‘enjoyment.’ The location of your consciousness will bring you an experience. For example, if my consciousness is located in anger, the experiences which are simple consequences of my deeds, will be perceived as ‘bad.’ Anger brings further animosity. Anger cannot bring love as a consequence.

John was angry with his son Paul. John went into a fight with his son and decided to expel Paul from his house. Consequently, Mary (Paul’s mother) became upset with John and because she missed Paul so much, she became very ill. John felt guilty. Even though he knew that his son didn’t act correctly in his house. John felt bad because he thought that he was the cause of Mary’s disease. Paul developed greater animosity towards his father. He did not want to see John ever again. Do you see the consequences of the location of John’s consciousness? Is this consequence ‘good or bad’?

It is neither. It is just a consequence, which will bring a different set of consequences to different beings. Those consequences will return to the ones involved. There are no victims. I can hear you saying: This is known as the law of karma. You are not telling me anything new!

There is neither ‘bad’ karma nor ‘good' karma; just consequences!. Isn’t this new?

Come on, Isn’t this consequence ‘bad’ for John?

No, if he learns about his anger from this experience. Otherwise, how is he going to learn? By reading a book? Or by listening to the talk of a guru? Not a chance.

But… What about Mary? You may ask. She is innocent but yet suffering the consequences… Well… Mary had to go through that experience to learn about attachment. How is she going to learn that? By listening to a class on attachment? Or by praying to God? She learns by being aware, conscious of her own actions/ feelings/ emotions.

Now, we could attempt to answer the questions from above:

Q: How is it possible for God to allow so much suffering in the world?

A: Do you expect God to stop you from doing something that you want to do? You have the consequences to deal with. Do you think that God has to bail you out? How are you going to learn then? And because many people in many places do not care about what they do in life… then you have the consequence, that is, what you perceive as suffering now. Simple math! It has nothing to do with God.

Q: Oh my God! For how long do I have to endure this experience?

A: As long as it takes you to give up your stubbornness of operating in the same way in life… It will be the same experience until you get tired of it, until you relinquish your old ways. Then obviously, the consequence will change.

Q: There is so much injustice in this world. “Good” people get to suffer and “bad” people get to enjoy life!

There are neither ‘good people’ nor ‘bad people’. There are merely consequences of our own actions. A so-called ‘Good person’ now could have been a tyrant before. When he decided to turn into “good” then obviously, he had some debts to pay from previous deeds which are neither “good nor bad.” Just consequences.

The experience of the consequences of our actions, will give a clue about our location of consciousness. Different location means a different experience. To wake up in life means to be aware of our own location of consciousness.

John_Mann

I think you better not skip your meds.

Max Divergent

Almost everyone who meditates are agnostic at least.

True, but you could say "Almost everyone who farts is agnostic at least" since atheists are a small minority of the world's population. Meditation of one kind or another is found in most cultures and religions; therefore most mediators and [human] farters are agnostic or believers.

But meditation has observed mental and physical benefits and belief in deities is not needed to practice it.

LoveUniHateExams

Abiather - you drone on about there being no 'good' and 'bad' yet a few posts earlier say how 'amazing' the universe and the human body are.

I notice you didn't deal with my examples of disturbing or shocking animal behaviour. I am trying to be an 'objective observer'. My post was simply a reminder that life is a mixed bag, not just 'amazing'.

TBH, I'm not particularly interested in the existence of God. He may or may not exist - I don't know. I'm studying biology at uni and what I am sure of is that belief in intelligent design is nearly impossible to maintain for the 'objective observer'.

abiather

LoveUniHateExams,

I did deal with animal question when I said when humans changed into egoistic ways and divisiveness, it was reflected in animal behaviour also--with the attendant problems and diseases among them too. When humans return to one world one family concept, animal behaviour also will change. That's why virtually all religions have one thing in common--there was a good time in the beginning, and there will be good time again!

LoveUniHateExams

Abiather - my specific point was that religious people use sin as an explanation for disease, etc. in humans. I don't believe it but I can see where there're coming from. But why in animals? According to the Genesis, they did nothing wrong. Why did God cause/allow animals to suffer?

When humans return to one world one family concept, animal behaviour also will change - two massive assumptions in one sentence.

On this thread, my overall point is that life is more than simply 'amazing' - it's a mixed bag.

adjusted knowledge

@cofty Faith is for lazy people. It is a substitute for thinking.

So I guess you've been lazy for most of your life. You criticize people that have faith, but don't forget you not only were an Elder, but after you were DF, you involved yourself in another Church. You've only been enlighten for a decade. Though I agree with everything I've read you posted, I am reminded about a conference that Neil Degrasse Tyson attended. He stated to Dawkins and the others on stage that he was concerned with basically their harshness to those with faith. He basically stated that to change people's opinion,viewpoint, or to even think about the issue may be impacted by the hostility these atheist have towards those of faith.

Though you are well read, and now are certain with your current belief; it wasn't that long ago you too had faith in a God. It is hard for people to accept that this life is it.

abiather

LoveUniHatexams

Eastern Scripture (Gita) says those people who repeatedly show beastly characteristics take births as beasts with their attendant problems and diseases:

Bhagavat Gita 16:18-20: "Having taken refuge in false ego, personal strength, arrogance, desire and anger, these malicious people detest Me even within their own bodies or within others.
I dispatch such enemies of mankind, lowest among mankind, into material existence where they perpetually enter into inauspicious demonic wombs.
After entering into demonic wombs through repeated births without achieving Me, the foolish eventually go to the vilest destination [literally lower beings]."

Thus no injustice happens--everything happens according to people's choice:

Gita 14:18: "Those who choose to abide in the quality of goodness are elevated, those who choose to abide in the quality of passion dwell in the middle and those who choose to abide in the quality of ignorance, the basest of all material qualities, are degraded.

In other words, there is sufficient reason behind everything which may be perceptible or imperceptible for others.

LoveUniHateExams

I hope you're not calling me a kunti

But seriously, you're using Eastern beliefs (=Hinduism?) to explain why animals suffer and die?

Whatever Bhagavat Gita says there's no way of testing it, is there?

If I wanted to gather evidence in support of reincarnation, how would I go about that?

Man is designed to be God-oriented, shows new scientific study!

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