If anyone within the Org wanted to turn it into a date, it would have value I suppose as a "latest-possible date". For those in the Org in the 70s and 80s till 1995, the "generation" teaching served to mark the upper limit of the "time of the end". Even informally, we were told during the 70s and 80s that end would definitely come by the end of the 20th century, with the year 2000 marking the latest possible date. I can see a function of such dates psychologically to keep people thinking that if it isn't happening this year or even next year, it's gotta happen BY SUCH-AND-SUCH date, and no matter what, in my lifetime. 2034 is a bit too far off even now to serve as a lastest-possible date, but maybe in 10 years, it will be only 20 years away, which would be comparable to the year 2000 for those in the trooth in 1980.
The amateur speculations of Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses
by logansrun 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Euphemism
I'm with ya, Logan. I not saying that the WTS will definitely not set another date, but I'd be pretty surprised if they did.
The fact is, they know that they're under constant scrutiny. They've spent the last 10 years doing nothing but covering their ass: avoiding taxes, avoiding legal liability, avoiding bad publicity. I think they're far too scared to do anything that would so obviously come back to bite them.
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Big Tex
My best friend is a long time elder. Bless his heart, he is constantly speculating about times and dates. I can remember a lunch at Olive Garden once where he was adamant that 1992 was "the end". Then it was 2000 (naturally). I've only heard once that he thought 2005 is "it", but I've never heard 2034.
I think some people are wanting the WTS to suffer as they have, so the emphasis that is sometimes placed on perceived errors, dates, foibles, etc. In my own case, I've reached a modicum of peace by letting the whole damn thing go. Control what you can, and let the rest go.
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zugzwang
I think odrade is correct. 2034 is too far away to be useful for the borg. Here is a new theory. September 11, 2005. In 66 C.E. it appeared that the "end of the system of things" was occuring to the Jewish nation. However, it wasn't until 4 years later that that system actually came to an end. On September 11, 2001 a great "wake up call" occured. And for a brief moment meeting attendance went up and everyone was all excited about what would happen next. Well, just like 66 C.E. to 70 C.E., the past four years has been the time for God's people to, "flee to the mountain" of Jehovah's organization. Spread the word. A little more than a year is left, before the "Roman armies" of today return and bring this modern day "system of things" to an end. In fact, the old understanding about "this generation" turns out to be correct after all. The generation was just 90 years long rather than 80.
Or what about this theory. Jesus is called "the second Adam" in the Bible. This tells us that, like Jesus, Adam spent at least 33 years of his life here on earth as a single man. This gave Adam plenty of time to name all of the animal's and plenty of time for him to realize that he was alone. This is new light just recently revealed to/from the "faithful slave." Now as we all know, 1975 marked 6,000 years from the date of Adam's creation, however our new understanding about how long Adam was alone before Eve was created means that we need to add at least 33 years to the chronology of man's existence on this planet. That would mean that instead of 6,000 years of man's existence being completed in 1975 that instead this would be accomplished 33 years later in 2008. Does this mean that the end will occur in 2008? Not necessarily. It is important to remember that the last days of the Jewish system of things lasted 37 years (33 - 70 C.E.) not 33 years. It is interesting to note though that 33 years into those last days it appeared that the end had come in 66 C.E. However, for some unknown reason the troops that had surrounded the city withdrew and did not return for 4 years, in 70 C.E. So while it may seem that the climax may have been reached in 2008 there may be a period of testing which will last around 4 years that will "sift out" all of the unfaithful. That puts us at 2012. Of course, it could come just one year or two years later instead of four. After all we're told to "KEEP" on the watch. At this time the following statement is finally due:
"Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man?s existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out,..." (Our Kingdom Ministry, March 1968 p. 4)So quickly now, everyone go out and sell your houses and spend the remaining time in the preaching work. . . . . again!
If you or I spend enough time thinking about it we could come up with a theory for every year between now and 2100 for when the Bible indicates the end will come but the Scriptures themselves says: "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." (Matthew 24: 36) So whether earth shaking events occur in 2005, 2008, 2012 or 2034 they will occur on God's timetable and no one will be able to forecast it with any calculation or chronology. The main thing for anyone who considers himself to be a Christian is this: "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (vs. 44)
I will admit though, it is pretty easy to take oneself pretty seriously when one comes up with such theories. No wonder Russell and Rutherford and Franz did it so often. It no doubt did a lot for their egos to come up with theories that were followed by so many. If my new theory developed a following I suppose I would also think I was "faithful and discreet." If new dates are set by the borg I suppose it will be to attain that same sense of power and authority that the former leaders also developed a taste for.
By the way, I had heard of the 2034 theory before while I was at Bethel. Just the usually overly zealous Bethel elders who are all GB wanna be's. I never heard it mentioned officially from any GB members or anyone with any real clout or authority out there. But who knows maybe it was just grapevine trickling down.
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Farkel
Here's something to consider. The WTS got away with multiple date-setting in the past for several important reasons:
1) They constantly replaced the old literature which had failed predictions with new literature that never mentioned them. Eventually that replaced literature became hard to find, and took time and effort to locate.
2) The society counted on its revolving door membership to disguise their past prophetic failings. Every single time a prophetic failure occurred, many would leave the religion and take their knowledge of this failure out of mainstream dubism. Those who stayed were more the kind of people who just couldn't see the truth that the WTS is a false prophet, so they quickly forgot those predictions.
New members coming in would almost never know about these failures for the two reasons I've stated above.
It's different today. In a matter of seconds or minutes people can find almost everything the WTS has ever said and ever written. I would certainly hate to be a dub trying to find and keep a convert today, given the prevelance and resources of the Internet. If the WTS had set a firm end-time date today, it might excite and even scare potential converts into seriously consider joining the religion. But within a half dozen mouse-clicks, that potential convert would find out it's the same old shit that has been going on for 120 years, the only difference being a new date for the end-time.
For those reasons, I don't the the WTS will ever again have a new "firm" or "hard" date for Armageddon. I do think there will continue to be "soft' dates (not specifically named as end-time dates) held out as little carrots.
The WTS knows its membership enjoys speculating as much as they do, and they need to have HOPE for SOMETHING good to happen for them in the future. Thus, "soft" dates will likely continue to be slipped into the literature from time-to-time.
Farkel
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iiz2cool
The few JWs that still talk to me didn't know what I was talking about when I mentioned 2034.
2034 is too far in the future for them to promote it as a date. If anything, it would give people a reason to leave the WTS. People might decide it's time to finally get started with their lives, rather than waiting another 30 years. If any actually believe in it they could always start going back to meetings in 2033.
Walter
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LoyalLeon
it was only seconds after reading about 2034 on JWD that a speculating family member mentioned the corresponding Watchtower article to me.
how good i read first JWD, because i would have overread the statement in the magazine, as I am not of the speculating sort...
but there are lots of speculating amateurs among the R&F, so that all those who wer duly programmed decades ago, read between the lines: 2034
it's true, the GB will never set a date again, but the whole religion lives of the expectance of the end, so speculations are 'encouraged', though not openly
look at this new brochure released -- no substance (a boring 3-volumes on Ezekiel would have been more substantial, and even a 'the-end-is-so-near-we-didn't-print-a-new-release-talk') but it's to be used in the ministry -- telling people the end is near!
i have absolutely no idea which publisher who can choose between ten to twenty brochures will choose this subject, but 9/11 just across the Brooklyn river must have made a substantial impression on the GB...
LL
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hillary_step
Logansrun,
I think that you are spot on here.
The WTS will not set another date, it *has* learned its lessons in this regard. When I once spoke to a very senior member of the WTS who resides in the hallowed corridors of power in Brooklyn regarding 1914CE his defense was that dates 'do not matter', it is the "'visible sign' that matters. Jesus gave signs, not dates". As he is an influential member of the GB, I am sure that this is the angle that will be pushed in the years to come.
They have not been above linking the few 'annointed ones' left on earth with the imminence of Armageddon however, approaching the problem from a lateral viewpoint. They have to have *something* to hang onto, and while the newspapers are filled with gloom and the earth filled with misery, they will have all the propulsion they need to carry on their doomsday proclamations.
I also agree with you Bradley that the days of Biblically interpretative excesses are over, not just because Freddie De Sade is dead, but because WTS Legal are far more involved in the production of Literature than they ever were. What comes out of the printing presses these days is a sanitized, bland, quacky porridge, as opposed the the unsanitized, bland insanity of the past. It is courtroom safe.
Farkel,
Again, I could not agree more with your post.
Best regards - HS
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ezekiel3
Prediction:
By 2010 the anointed count will diminish to be almost nil. This will cause heightened enthusiam through the next 5 years as a neo-sign of the times.
JWs will begin "pa$$ing the plate" by 2010.
Also by this date, large scale world calamity/war can be expected, which will generate zeal and members.
By this time most JW baby-boomers (the pre-'75 bumper crop) will be retired and dying, elimating members. Worldwide access to information will erode the info-bubble that most third-world JWs are insulated by.
The JW organization will whither into a sort of Omish "lost-in-time" cult sponsored by die-hards by 2020.
This generation will by no means pass away until they see the end of the WBTS!
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ezekiel3
Oh, and one more thing:
A splinter schism by 2007, you heard it here first!