Jacobs sons & the slaughterfest of Shichem & his tribe (page 2)

reboot

I read a book called The Red Tent that's a story based around Dinah written by a jewish historian....although it's fictional, it's very well researched and suggested that Dinah was willing to lie with him and wanted him,that he approached the family to ask permission to marry etc.and a that it was common practice for that area.....It was beautifully written and worth reading as an alternative suggestion as the bible account is very sketchy...

reboot

I hate the account, cant even remember who it was anymore..where a father, rather than allow a homosexual act to take place offers his daughter instead, like a coward, and she gets raped until she dies from her injuries.....I brought that up with a few elders a few times......sickening...

Ah, it's in Judges 22 onwards.....my bible fell open on the page-spooky eh?

' Bring out the man that came into your house that we may have intercourse with him'At that the owner of the house went out to them and said to them, 'No my brothers,do not do anything wrong, please,since this man has come into my house.Do not commit this disgraceful folly.Here are my virgin daughter and my concubine .Let me bring them out please,and you RAPE them,and do to them what is good in your eyes.......but. to this man you must do this disgraceful, foolish thing'

They wer'nt interested, so h took his concubine out to them and left her.... they gang raped her all night, in the morning he found she had fallen at the door and was dead, he cut her in to twelve pieces.....

Mary

I wouldn't assume that the term "he lay with her" automatically means it was consenual sex. Remember when Amnon raped his half-sister Tamar? It also says he "lay with her", but we all know that in fact, he raped her:

Second Samuel chapter 13

10 And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother. 11 And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister. 12 And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly. 13 And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee. 14 Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her

SixofNine

Yep, the story of Amnon and Tamar describes a rape. The story of Dinah and Shechem doesn't seem to, all Jehoover Witness and other fundy logic aside.

gumby

I'm thinkin Dinah might have been a skank whore and she insigated the whole deal......who knows?

And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male

Sounds like horny ol' Jehovah liked virgins too! This is proof we were made in "his image"

Gumby

reboot

I suppose in that account you have 'proof' of non-consent, so you can take 'lay' to mean rape...but 'lay' is also used in a gentle way in other places in the bible and Dinah's voice is quiet..it was interesting to read about the way social life worked then though-and was written as Dinah was such a maligned figure in the WTBS I thought it offered an alternative view that may have been true....lets hope so for Dinahs sake .

SixofNine

being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but the "lay" part above means "lay", as in roll in the hay, sex, bump uglies, do the nasty, have intercourse, screw, make the beast with two backs, bury the bone, "couple with", beef, boff, bone, bore, bottle, bump (fur), dance the mattress jig, do the four legged frolic, buzz the brillo, have a bit of summer cabbage, have a bit of giblet pie, play hide the ferret, have a hot roll with cream, jump, lay, impale, knock off a peice, park your yacht in hair harbor, quimsticking, pole, poke, punish the parts, shag, roger, slip her a length, have a bit of the old squeeze n' squirt, do the matrimonial polka, take your vitamin F, make the sign of the pitchfork, and just be "with". And the "being stronger than she, forced her" part conveys that said lay is non-consensual and therefore rape.

proplog2

Just read a book called Is Religion Killing Us? Violence in the Bible and the Quaran By Jack Nelson Pallmeyer. Trinity Press 2003

Last Tuesday's book study made me sick to my stomach. The chapter was

"Destructive Power-Jehovah is A Manly Person of War."

Paragraph 20 page 66

Question: When we read Bible accounts of divine warfare that we may not fully understand how should we respond?

Answer:"But of this we can always be certain: Jehovah never wields destructive power in an unjust, wanton, or cruel manner."

I wonder why they didn't quote Isaiah 13:9

"Look! The day of Jehovah itself is coming, CRUEL both with fury and with burning anger, in order to make the land an object of astonishment, and that it may annihilate sinners out of it."

Yeah that fullfills the aim of the book "Draw Close to Jehovah"

But don't stop there. Keep reading in Isaiah 13:15,16

"Every one that is found will be pierced through, and every one that is caught in the sweep will fall by the sword; and their very children will be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses will be pillaged and their own wives will be raped."

The book I mentioned at the beginning ends this way:

"The violence-of-God traditions at the heart of the Bible and the Quaran have invaded our own hearts. By sanctioning violence in "sacred" texts and in reference to them, we invariably progress along a treacherous pathway. God is powerful and proves to be God through superior violence. The God of superior violence justifies human violence in the name of God and in pursuit of God's objectives that with frightening regularity mirror our own objectives. In the end, violence replaces or becomes God. Violence is widely embraced because it is embedded and sanctified in "sacred" texts and because its use seems logical in a violent world. "

gumby

Sixer dammit! You forgot "do the Pokey Pokey". You've got a lot more names to learn there my friend!

*shakes finger at him*

simplesally

GE 34:1 Now Dinah, the daughter Leah had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the women of the land. 2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and violated her. 3 His heart was drawn to Dinah daughter of Jacob, and he loved the girl and spoke tenderly to her. 4 And Shechem said to his father Hamor, "Get me this girl as my wife."

Rape is a crime of anger. Not usually something a man does to a woman he loves, treats tenderly and wants to marry. The bible even calls Shechem an honorable man. I would guess that her brothers got angry because Shechem was not married to Dinah, he was a Canannite and not circumcized............and maybe, gosh, Shechem asked for permission to marry her AFTER he had intercourse with Dinah and not beforehand....... I wonder who was the control freak?

Jacobs sons & the slaughterfest of Shichem & his tribe

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