by allpoweredup 18 Replies latest jw friends
Ozzie:
Labels, indeed.
I have many friends that would be typically pigeonholed in all of those categories (excepting the "rabid" bit).
Whilst I disagree with much of Ray's theology, I can't help but love the guy.
I hate to see him slighted, especially by the ignorant.
Ray Franz other essay "What Can I Do?" makes it even more clear that God's children (those expressing the spirit of love just as God does to humanity in general) walk through different church or temple doors every day, and that we need to not bar our tender affections from them. Trinitarian, nontrinitarian, Pentecostal, nonPentecostal, Catholic, nonCatholic - it doesn't matter what labels or dogma may be, but it does matter that we seek to show LOVING BEHAVIOR toward others. See his statements in full at http://www.commentarypress.com The man says he can and does love you regardless of what you now call yourself.
A RABID TRINITARIAN, eh? He'd better kill the racoon that bit him and bring its head into the lab for testing, just to be safe.
I have no doubt that Ray Franz is a heck of a nice guy, but having a free mind means not following him, either.
Ray realized the WTS was full of crap years after I did, so in this matter, I'm HIS senior.
Ray Franz' view overall appears to be that we stay one in loving conduct toward each other. He has no problem over you or others believing in the trinity, Nathan, besides, various trinitarians also have different views of what the trinity is. Nor does he worry if people feel holy spirit is a person, spirit being or idea. But he believes in unity by love which Colossians says is the strongest bond, not compulsory beliefs on all things.
Christ also emphasized basic principles like love, joy and peace while the Pharisees and Saducees put more emphasis on rules and rigid interpretations of scriptures than love. So I think Ray Franz is correct although like yourselves I also also that he is also sometimes incorrect. Diversity is good, and he appears to agree with that. All trees are not the same kind, nor are all flowers. Why would God or any sane human try to force same beliefs on all topics? God brings sunshine, rain and other kind gifts to us all and as much as possible we need to show kindness too.
My main concern is that elders all over have been totally misinformed about the man. Shame on those doing that. Let them remove the rafters from their own eyes.
My main concern is that elders all over have been totally misinformed about the man.
Of course he is to be viewed as the worsed apostate ever! (in the eyes of the WTS)
I have dined with him & his wife-They are extremly gracious ,kind,loving folks,
I dont care what anyone says about him. All I can vouch for is his LOVE! for all.
Those who judge him would be wise to remember "the way we are judging is the way we will be judged"
I have not had the priviledge of meeting him in person but have been in contact via e-mail and he does seem very sincere and caring.
As far as the trinity goes - I put it in the same category as hellfire and other "doctrines". These are basically "doctrines" that can be proved or disproved using different scriptures. Anything that is not completely clear in the bible I view as a doctrine that each person should research and make their own decision on - but none of these doctrines are going to keep you from being saved, or save you for that matter.
The bible is very clear on a few points that DO make the difference: 1) Jesus is God's son (whether he's also God or something is a doctrine), 2) Jesus is divine in nature, and 3) Jesus is the ONLY way to God. Those teachings are clear in the bible and so they are the ones that I stand on. The rest of the doctrines are fun to argue pro vs. con - but I see them as no more importance than what church I go to on Sunday.
How can any diehard WT followers really say any thing about him, if he is an Apostate then they should have nothing to do with him, if they do then they can or will be DFed themselves.
So for them telling others information regarding Ray is showing how contradictive they are to their own theology.
The article you cite does not specifically state that Ray Franz wrote it. While he approves what is posted on the Commentary Press site, he does not write all the articles. I know Ray personally, and the writing style seems like it could be his, but I was not 100% sure. However, the views expressed are similar to those he has expressed to me. - Jim Whitney
