Printed off for later reading material... thank-you. I'm not sure where this is all leading at the moment, but I have an interest in this area of knowledge. I also have a friend who bangs on about Lilith and uses the image as some kind of archetype to punish women. I'm sure he will find the information useful
The Tree of Life, Asherah, and Her Snakes
by Leolaia 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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googlemagoogle
i just wanted to correct: the depicted rod with wings is NOT the rod of asclepios, but of hermes (the messenger). the symbol for ascleipios is a pole with just one serpent, exactly as the brass snake.
another hint to lilith is probably found in tobit (tobias), where parts of the fish have to be burnt to protect a woman from the child-killing demon. -
Leolaia
i just wanted to correct: the depicted rod with wings is NOT the rod of asclepios, but of hermes (the messenger). the symbol for ascleipios is a pole with just one serpent, exactly as the brass snake.
I think that's what I said, that the modern winged caduceus "is traced to the Punic caduceus that was adopted by the Romans, the staff of Asklepios, as well as the staff of Hermes -- representing a convergence between related but originally distinct symbols". It's a somewhat complex process of convergence because the Tannit caduceus became very stylized, with the heads of the two snakes looking eventually like wings on two sides of a vertical stick (with a circle in the middle, often). This was clear from the original images which no longer appear in the article (linkrot). The "wings" of the modern caduceus probably derive as much from the Hermes symbol as from the stylized snakes of the Punic caduceus.
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googlemagoogle
please excuse if i misunderstood something here...
i just want to add that the caduceus (staff of hermes) is not used in medicine, as it is not an equivalent to the staff of aesculap. rather it is used as a symbol of commerce. farmacies use the staff of aesculap symbol ("the brass snake"). both symbols still are distinctive - at least in europe, don't know about the usa. -
Leolaia
Yes, you are right that the Hermes caduceus originally and continues to be a symbol of commerce and messengers. But it was primarily a symbol of magic and alchemy, and the association between the caduceus and medicine goes at least as far back as the seventh century AD, through its use by alchemists involved with occult medicine. The association could have been earlier as well. It was likely through the influence of the winged Punic caduceus of Tannit, which was used for healing spells among the Phoenicians and entered into the Roman repertoire of magical symbols, that the association was made in part. The Aesclepian staff was originally separate and continues to this day as a medical symbol but it also contributed (through confusion between symbols) to the use of the caduceus as a medical symbol. It wasn't until the 16th century that the caduceus was revived and not until the 18th and 19th centuries when it became especially popular (vis-a-vis the Aesclepian staff) as a medical symbol. Today different medical organizations use one or the other.
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DeWandelaar
Ok... bumped this because I was researching this matter (because I found it strange that Asherah of all goddesses is symbolised by a tree and has a stron connection with El and Yahweh.
Very very VERY interesting peace of post :)
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Phizzy
Isn't Leo just the greatest ? She has that wonderful ability to draw on lots of arcane knowledge, and relay it to us in terms we can understand.
I was looking to buy an Academic book on this very subject, but it was £197.00 on Amazon !!!!!
On here, Leo gives it to us free !!
Thanks Leo, wherever you are.
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DATA-DOG
Yes, she is. Thank you for bumping this. I did not know it existed.
I am amazed at all the "myths" that exist. I know that there are many theories as to how they came about. I would like to link a Youtube film to this post, because it deals with a related subject. The film is about possible alternative renderings of ancient words. One thing that really struck me, was that the biblical word for serpent could really mean " shinning one/cherub." It also mentions mountais and Eden, and other cool things.
I love this stuff. IMHO, thinking of the "talking snake" as a Cherub or spirit creature makes much more sense out the Genesis account. I always thought that it was weird that EVE, a perfect woman, with a perfect brain, did not run and tell Adam that a snake was talking to her. Are we to believe that other animals were running around talking as well? Wouldn't a talking snake have been odd? If you really had conversations with your Creator, then seeing another spirit creature/God and having a conversation would not be that strange.
The Genesis account being a re-telling of an ancient event, from a Jewish perspective, makes more sense to me.