by Elsewhere 152 Replies latest social entertainment
bisous,
thank u for that post. enjoyed it.
teach your daughters to be strong independet women and they will have the self esteem they need to protect them. Men are not the enemy, they are our parteners here on earth. the french say"viva the difference" or something to that affect.
i'm glad i look like a women and i'm happy when a man takes notice.
:teach your daughters to be strong independet women and they will have the self esteem they need to protect them.
Well said.
If my daughter turns out to be attracted to someone older than her, rather than boys her own age at 18, I will hopefully have raised her to be a young woman who is NOT up for any kind of perverse imbalance in a relationship that would result in exploitation.
yep, agreed. I married an older man when I was young....unlike many of the observations on this thread, I was mature beyond my years at 18...so go figure... many 18 year olds are inexperienced and immature ... but many are the opposite. If you raise your kids with the values you possess they will emulate them. It is up to us as parents to give them the foundation we think is necessary, male and female ...
FHN, I honestly didn't mean to single you out, the mention of not knowing what a pass was at 14 stuck with me in reading the multitude of responses here ... thus I didn't reference the poster ... but it did capture the essence of several posters viewpoints here that I was responding to. A general feeling I was responding to vs. an individual poster.
Doesn't change my opinion expressed however.
p.s. I also have never minded (probably from about 16 or so) being noticed by the fellas, being viewed with attraction, joking with men in a flirtatious manner, etc. It is part of the natural human experience. We have these feelings and reactions in us and the male/female dynamic is a fact. If we are raising sons and daughters not to be able to deal with these facts realisticlly, shame on us as parents.
The point of this thread was in fact to note that, in US terms, the twins are legitimately 'available' sexually. big deal. Again, take a look at their current press pic. They are definitely not presenting themselves as 'girls'. Doesn't mean that joking on this topics makes those that do perverts.
This entire discussion is just another example of why I prefer many aspects of the European culture to the US culture.
Descender,
You must be in college or hanging out at bars or hanging out with college girls or barhoppers.
It's a sad fact that some of today's young women have given in and they do those kinds of things because they think that is what men want. Most young women are not that stupid, though.
FHN, I honestly didn't mean to single you out, the mention of not knowing what a pass was at 14 stuck with me in reading the multitude of responses here ... thus I didn't reference the poster ... but it did capture the essence of several posters viewpoints here that I was responding to. A general feeling I was responding to vs. an individual poster.
I understand and I didn't think you meant to single me out.
Flyin'
Yeah, I do live in a college town. And there are plenty of clubs and bars open at all times of the night, so you're right. Drugs, alcohol, and one-night stands are easy to find, sometimes even when you aren't looking. I've been going to a lot of parties and clubs as of late since my wife left just to see if it would be fun because it wasn't something I did as a witness, but it's really just not my thing. I'm not interested in one-night stands, I'd rather be in a romantic relationship with a woman where I don't have to worry that they're just out for another conquest or playing me, which is quite prevalant from what I've seen.
Anyway, sorry that I kind of veered away from the Olsen Twin topic. As far as that goes, they know what sells and they want to be in style and look pretty. I have nothing against that. But being big screen actresses does entail the ogling factor from men as well as women, so it's not to be unexpected. And it's not like any of the older men ogling the Olsen twins have a chance anyway.
Descender,
And it's not like any of the older men ogling the Olsen twins have a chance anyway.
I agree, you just hate to think the older guys might be amongst men you thought you respected.
Good for you that you don't like that wild kind of lifestyle. I like to think most men feel as you do. I don't think you're all dogs.
Flyin'
Why do people act like men who want to date younger women, even 18, are child molesters here? Jesus. The age of consent is a legal line, there for a reason. A birthday does'nt maturity or immaturity make, but we need a line.. I think it's ill advised, but certainly not monstrous. I had 40 year old women after me at 18. One or two actually succeeded in catching me. Would you say the same about these women? I doubt it.
I also had older women after me, in the hall, when I was 14. That was'nt ok, for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that they could have gotten me DF'd. And my mom said she'd knock their teeth out. Oh, yeah, these women were'nt like, 18. I'm talking in their late 20's-early thirties.
I think it's ill advised, but certainly not monstrous. I had 40 year old women after me at 18. One or two actually succeeded in catching me. Would you say the same about these women? I doubt it.
Ill advised is a good way to put it. Yes, I would hold those women just as much to task. The thing is, if you meet a girl who is 18 plus and you personally connect with her, it's not the same as watching and waiting for your 13 year old neighbor to reach 18.
The distasteful thing about this Olson Twins thing is the lusting that men blatantly did all those years before they turned 18.
Flyin'
Flying
I don't think this thread is about feeling pity for the Olson Twins. It's more about older men counting the days until teenaged girls turn 18 so they can pursue them for a sexual relationship.
The distasteful thing about this Olson Twins thing is the lusting that men blatantly did all those years before they turned 18.
I agree Flying, and I think arguments presented that run along the lines of 'they're rich, if people think of them in a sexual fashion it's their fault' are just plain dumb.
There's a difference between a children's entertainer and a porn star, even if both wear crop-tops so you can see their navel and tight jeans.
In fact in a way it's kinda weird people are arguing that if those young girls dress like that then it's okay for them to be spoken of as sexual commodities, even if they aren't. It's like people are saying 'talk about my daughter like she's a slut, it's okay. she deserves it as she's wearing a crop-top'. What rubbish...
It justifies the classic construction-worker/building site/attractive woman situation, which is something that makes most women feel uncomfortable as they are not being complimented in a nice way about their beauty, but are being spoken of like a piece of meat.
She wore a slinky red thing, she was asking for it? I know that no one reading this would think that... but the thing is accepting speech like that makes those the DO feel that way vindicated to some extent.
And note; for all the justifications, not one man has said they'd say it to the girls' father's face, nor has one father said they would be untroubled by having someone refer to their daughters in a similar fashion, so WHATEVER the pleadings, it seems we all know talking about young girls like that is bang out of order, even if we won't come out and say it.
And bisous, it's not that Elsewhere is a closet paedophile or anything like that. It's just that for any number of reasons I don't think it's healthy to speak of young girls in that way. Just as I think racially abusive speech is damaging, so too is speech that reduces women to sexual objects awaiting a magic number that means men can use them. And what would you do if a male neighbour passed a comment like that about your daughter when she was 17, even if you knew your daughter would take a jerk like that in her stride?
p.s. I also have never minded (probably from about 16 or so) being noticed by the fellas, being viewed with attraction, joking with men in a flirtatious manner, etc. It is part of the natural human experience.
But if you'd heard a group of older guys had been counting down the days until they could pop your cherry, what then? Flirtation to someones face is different from objectifying children's performers behind their back. It's different from finding count-downs that started several years ago funny.
avishai
Why do people act like men who want to date younger women, even 18, are child molesters here?
They are? Hell, I'm talking about finding a count-down to the coming of age of children's entertainers distasteful, as it just makes similar objectification of women easier. I've been at pains to say it's natural to find young women attractive. At how if someone gets into adult entertainment then objectification is to be expected.
And if someone in the real world finds themselves in a relationship with someone legal but under 20, then fine. It's an interaction between individuals (whatever the contexts and subtexts), not plainly disrespectful speech about people you don't know - who've not courted being regarded as sexual chattel - being acepted as normal or funny.
I object to the lack of respect shown by such speech avishai, and I note you've NOT said you'd be happy to have someone talk about your daughter like that.
The "countdown" has been deliberately promoted by the management of the twins. For most of us in the US, the twins were cute little munchkin(s) from the long running TV show Full House. In order for their careers to endure into adulthood, they have subjected themselves to a lot of publicity regarding them coming of age. I have also noticed that they are making a concerted effort to "separate" themselves into individuals with one twin coloring her hair brunette. Then, we have been subjected to numerous "sexy" images of them to replace the image of them being cute little girls in our minds.
Such is the power of the media.
