"WorldWatch" on JW's...good stuff here

by sf 32 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  chasson

  Hi scorpion,

  A review of Russell's sermons show them to be very Masonic with a touch of Christianity. How did Charles Taze Russell have so much insight into Masonry and how was he privy to Masonic concepts held only for sages and adepts in Masonry?

  Have you some specific example of what you said ?

  Russell on one occasion stated that he wasn't a Mason but referred to the Masons as his "BROTHERS in Masonry." He also referred to the International Bible Student as "The highest order of Freemasonry.

  Yes in 1913, but he explained that it was not a earthly freemasonry, but a "Bible" masonry. IMHO, it was only to seduce some masons.

  . Russell is considered by many as a Mason because his belief system was laced with Masonry.

  Could you explain that with examples ?

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  Farkel

  You made assertions as facts. I asked for evidence. You responded with:

  : Get a life.

  At least in my non-life I have common sense. I would rather have a non-life and common sense and a "life" without any. Sorry you feel differently.

  : Im not battling for supremecy of this board.

  Thtat's for sure. Your pathetic rants when charged to produce evidence would hardly be called a "battle."

  : To be a leader you need to display leadership qualitys which is obvious you have none.

  Red herring.

  : To publicly ridicule is childish. Hike your leg on someone else youre not marking your territory on me.

  Ad hominem.

  : Its also obvious your knowledge of the masons is limeted. Ive studied the masons long enough to know their evil ways and the statement about them murdering mozart stands.

  How can it stand without any legs?

  : Is this how you treat someone else that might bring something else to this board besides a big chip on their shoulder,

  I treat everyone who spouts shit equally.

  : crying and moaning about how bad you were lied to by the org. Get over it. Ive got news for you. You were lied to in school also.

  I've never "cried and moaned" about being lied to by the org.

  : How old are you anyway.

  Old enough to properly punctuate a question.

  : Do you throw a tantrum every time the conversation shifts away from the poor Farkel or you disagree with what is being said.

  I didn't throw a tantrum, I asked for evidence. You didn't produce evidence and I pointed that out. It's pretty obvious from all your personal attacks on me that you are the one who is throwing the tantrum.

  : You act just like the org. If you dont agree with it, squash it.

  I didn't ask you squash anything. I asked you for evidence.

  : Mark your spot on someone else. Youre way out of your league on this one.

  That's ok. I don't mind stepping down from my league to help someone understand the difference between a sound argument and a sloppy one.

  : Untill you have something intelligant to say about freemasons I would stay out of the conversation.

  I thought you had all the intelligent things to say about how Mozart was murdered by the Freemasons. Of course I was wrong, but then again, no one is perfect.

  Farkel
• 

  Treborr Jones

  Tina

  You said
  "I see you're one of those who attack the messenger -your reaction to Farkel is uncalled for and extreme".

  I was the messenger that was attacked when I brought up the fact that Russell was a Mason.

  You said
  "Your w/s is nothing but conspiracy theories......I still want to know(because I asked in another thread) why you think the Pentagon is monitoring your site."

  My site contains conspiracy related material. The information on my site is not just theory. The information comes from ex intelligance officers who stood up for America and its people and were drumed out of the service because of it. These are educated men most who held the highest security ratings availible. Such as William Still who wrote the book "New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies". His father was a Lt. Col. in the Air Force. Milton William Cooper, ex NSA Intelligance officer. The list is to broad to mention them all here. But these people have a rather unique view of whats really going on wouldnt you say. How I know the pentagon comes to my site is by the counter on my page. To see an example of this go to my home page, scroll down to previous headlines, click on the link and I have an example posted on the page. to see this counter work go back to my main page scroll to the bottom and you will see a blue box with a red checkmark. Click on this box and you can see where the last 10 visitors were from.

  You said "sorry anybody can jump in. This is a PUBLIC board .

  You are so very right and I will continue to jump in.

  My view that Russell was a mason still stands. A question for you to entertain. If Russell wasnt a Mason why the pyramid structure at his grave site? If I was the org I would have went ballistic and had it removed. The fact that it still remains and the plaque reads "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society" is all the proof I need. But there is more. The cemetary is owned by the Greater Pittsburgh Masonic Center .

  Robert
• 

  Farkel

  It's always fun to bring crap up to the top of the board.

  I hope the board enjoys your crap.

  By the way, why did you not address any of my rebuttals?

  Dummy.

  Farkel
  Anti-Crap CLASS
• 

  Scorpion

  Charles,

  One only has to read the 1913 Convention report to see Russell's involvment with Masonry.

  > http://www.exjws.net/museum/masonry.htm

  After reading this, one has to ask themselves, did Russell bring his Masonic beliefs and his Masonic world view into the Watchtower?

  Just look at the Masonic symbols used by Russell on the magazines and books printed in the early stages of the WTBTS.

  I agree with you that Russell might have been trying to seduce some Masons. I wonder if there is actually any truth in a few of the books I read that the WT in the early stages was financed by Freemasonry and Zionism. The Bible Students I deal with will gladly tell you that Russell was a Zionist. Of course the BS do not care for me to be on their forums.

  Just a few things Russell said from the 1913 Convention report.

  "I say to you dear friends, We of the Free and Accepted Order of Masons of the Lord Jesus Christ's Commandery have the very highest standard...
  One of the highest of this order of ours, a thirty-second degree spiritual Mason. I will call him St. Paul. St. Paul in one of his epistles boasted about the kinds of marks he bore...They were marks such as our Savior had, and such as all the high spiritual Masons must have...
  Are you laying aside the works these things that belong to our order of Free and Accepted Masonry? It is the grandest Masonry of all."

  Russell refered to Christ as the great Mason and that the Lord's church is a secret order. He said that Jesus was the cheif Mason and that the world did not know him but did slay him. Russell refered to the Great Pyramid as an emblem the Masons use.

  Yes, I agree that Russell was using terms as far as a Bible Masonry, but I think it was more than that when you read the evidence and see Russell's involvment.

  Take care

  Stan
• 

  chasson

  Hi Scorpion,

  One only has to read the 1913 Convention report to see Russell's involvment with Masonry.

  Not his involvment, perhaps his interest, but he has not really studied freemasonry, this a superficial ananlysis of freemasonry. He made many mistakes, asserted that he has never been a mason and he compared the Church as a heavenly Secret Society which only Christ (the Master Mason) knows the member. His speech was a parabol to seduce some masons in the hall.

  Just look at the Masonic symbols used by Russell on the magazines and books printed in the early stages of the WTBTS.

  Do you want to speack about "the cross and crown symbol" ? This symbol has been used by lutherian, catholic's order, christian science, and there was even a millerist periodic which named "The cross and Crown", This is an universal symbol, not only a Knight's Templar Symbol.

  Do you want to speack about "Winged Disk Sun" ? Yes, this is really more problematic. I have phoned the president of the french's Bible Student Organisation called M.I.L.S. He explained me that it was in connection with malachi 3:10. I found only a Web's page where it was said that it is a christian's symbol of the millenium, but i have found many page who tried to explain that Bible has paganism's connection. This symbol was used by Russell in 1913 after his journey in Egypt (at the same time of the famous speech). Perhaps, it was a tentative of Russell to display a more mystic's approch of the Bible.

  Do you want to talk about the pyramid ? Have you read my last post ?
  Pyramid was never a major symbol in Masonry. The Russell's view of the pyramid of Gizeh is far different than the occult's approch of the pyramid. It is easily to find the connection of Russell's pyramidology with the Second Adventism's pyramidology. Do you think that the Second Adventism is freemansonry, too ?

  I wonder if there is actually any truth in a few of the books I read that the WT in the early stages was financed by Freemasonry and Zionism. The Bible Students I deal with will gladly tell you that Russell was a Zionist. Of course the BS do not care for me to be on their forums.

  This are Springmeier's claims. In fact a french's anticultist has found after a lot of research in university's documentation that it was based upon some false document made by fascist and nazis. I think this kind of material is not only stupid, it is really dangerous. I don't want the Watchtower to make any connection with us (the apostates) and the Nazi's ideology. See:

  http://www.multimania.com/xmd/

  One of the highest of this order of ours, a thirty-second degree spiritual Mason.

  Very funny. Paul was not a full initiated. There are 33 degrees in Masonry.

  but I think it was more than that when you read the evidence and see Russell's involvment.

  I think that Russell has only read or understand some thinks about Masonry, and he has thinked to be very clever to make a stupid's speech, because when a mason read this text, he can easely see that Russell understand nothing about Masonry except what urban legend said about it. Russell has tried to seduce Mason and in fact, he has demonstrated to be a fool.

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  Scorpion

  Charles,

  You said that Russell understood 'nothing' about Masonry except what urban legend said about it.

  Now that's funny. NOTHING??? BWAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA

  I agree with you on a few things, especially, Russell demonstrated to be a fool.
• 

  larc

  For those of you that believe that there is an illuminati, Mason, Russell connection, I will go beyond Farkle's opening comment of "baloney". I think it is lunacy.

  Now that you understand my point of view, I would like one of you lunatics to write out in detail those beliefs that are identical for Masons and Russell.
• 

  chasson

  Hi scorpion,

  You said that Russell understood 'nothing' about Masonry except what urban legend said about it.

  Now that's funny. NOTHING??? BWAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA

  I have take the time to answer in details on what i know about Russell and Masonry. I have hoped you would make the same thing. Your last answer don't satisfied me. Could you explain your point of view a little more instead a "BWAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA"

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  larc

  chasson,

  What are the beliefs that Russell and the Masons held in common?