A BLOOD QUESTION

by Mary 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    Cassi, the key word is "interrupted" and so is considered a continuous flow without stopping so the WTS doesn't considered it stored. Notice the Talmudic comments in the 1989 article.

    Blood Brochure p. 27 Jehovah?s Witnesses?The Surgical/Ethical Challenge

    Many will allow the use of (non-blood-prime) heart-lung, dialysis, or similar equipment if the extracorporeal circulation is uninterrupted.

    w89 3/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers

    In a somewhat different process, autologous blood can be diverted from a patient to a hemodialysis device (artificial kidney) or a heart-lung pump. The blood flows out through a tube to the artificial organ that pumps and filters (or oxygenates) it, and then it returns to the patient?s circulatory system. Some Christians have permitted this if the equipment is not primed with stored blood. They have viewed the external tubing as elongating their circulatory system so that blood might pass through an artificial organ. They have felt that the blood in this closed circuit was still part of them and did not need to be ?poured out.?

    What, though, if the flow of such autologous blood stopped briefly, such as if a heart-lung machine is shut down while the surgeon checks the integrity of coronary-bypass grafts?

    Actually, the Biblical emphasis is not on the issue of continuous flow. Even aside from surgery, a person?s heart might stop briefly and then resume. His circulatory system would not have to be emptied and his blood disposed of just because blood flow had stopped during the cardiac arrest. Hence, a Christian having to decide whether to permit his blood to be diverted through some external device ought to focus, not primarily on whether a brief interruption in flow might occur, but on whether he conscientiously felt that the diverted blood would still be part of his circulatory system.?Galatians 6:5.

    What about induced hemodilution? Some surgeons believe that it is advantageous for a patient?s blood to be diluted during surgery. Thus, at the start of an operation, they direct some blood to storage bags outside a patient?s body and replace such with nonblood fluids; later, the blood is allowed to flow from the bags back to the patient. Since Christians do not let their blood be stored, some physicians have adapted this procedure, arranging the equipment in a circuit that is constantly linked to the patient?s circulatory system. Some Christians have accepted this, others have refused. Again, each individual must decide whether he would consider the blood diverted in such a hemodilution circuit to be similar to that flowing through a heart/lung machine, or he would think of it as blood that left him and therefore should be disposed of.

    A final example of autologous blood use involves recovering and reusing blood during surgery. Equipment is used to aspirate blood from the wound, pump it out through a filter (to remove clots or debris) or a centrifuge (to eliminate fluids), and then direct it back into the patient. Many Christians have been very concerned whether in such salvage there might be any brief interruption of blood flow. Yet, as mentioned, a more Biblical concern is whether the blood escaping into a surgical wound is still part of the person. Does the fact that the blood has flowed from his circulatory system into the wound mean that it should be ?poured out,? like the blood mentioned at Leviticus 17:13? If an individual believes so, he would probably refuse to permit such blood salvage. Yet, another Christian (who also would not let blood flow from him, be stored for some time, and later be put back into him) might conclude that a circuit with recovery from a surgical site and ongoing reinfusion would not violate his trained conscience.

    As we can see, there is a growing variety of equipment or techniques involving autologous blood. We cannot and should not try to comment on each variation. When faced with a question in this area, each Christian is responsible to obtain details from medical personnel and then make a personal decision.

  • Mary
    Mary
    I dont know about bringing your own blood over. However, we do have plenty of Alcohol which I have found to be a very good blood substitute.....

    LMAO!! Ya, but our beer is better than yours!!

    When faced with a question in this area, each Christian is responsible to obtain details from medical personnel and then make a personal decision.

    For god's sake, why don't they just make this the standard rule for blood tranfusions in general....all this nit-picking, hair-splitting nonsense just to try and save an outdated doctrine is ridiculous. The Society needs to do what the Church of God did: come out and admit all their mistakes about alot of their screwed up rules and doctrines, apologize to the flock and move ahead.

  • shadow
    shadow

    Actually remaining in a continuous circuit has also been abandoned. You may find this discussion on a forum apparently made for HLC members and other interested parties. One respondent voiced concern about how to explain this policy change, but was quickly squashed by others.

    JW's may now have blood transported to another location, treated, returned and then re-infused as long as it is part of an ongoing therapy.

    http://www.noblood.org/forum/showthread.php?t=697

  • Balsam
    Balsam

    AJWRB.ORG has all the information compiled on the web-site for much reading, and a staff of folks to talk to if people need help. AJWRB stands for ASSOCIATED JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES for REFORM on BLOOD. The Watchtower Society of course is opposed to the site, but it has been very benefital to helping the medical community deal with Jehovah's Witnesses, and provide information for active JW facing blood issues.

    The stand the WTS has taken on blood has caused the death of many folks. They have painted themselves into a corner much as they have with the 1914 date. They are just some very stupid old men who are controling it all.

    Medically do what you need too to keep yourself safe during your surgery. Storing you own blood is the best choice.

    Balsam

  • ohiocowboy
    ohiocowboy

    Hi! I don't really have any answers for you, but I just want to say that I wish you the best on your surgery, and for a speedy recovery!!!

  • SAHS
    SAHS
    When faced with a question in this area, each Christian is responsible to obtain details from medical personnel and then make a personal decision.
    For god's sake, why don't they just make this the standard rule for blood tranfusions in general....all this nit-picking, hair-splitting nonsense just to try and save an outdated doctrine is ridiculous.

    Mary:

    Excellent point!

    Unfortunately, even though the Society makes general statements that such things are a ?personal decision,? if someone actually did decide, for example, to store their own blood for autologous transfusion, they would no-doubt face a judicial committee, with a likely unfavorable result. It seems that the ?personal decision? clause is really meant to give an impression of reasonable flexibility?but when it comes right down to people actually making such specific decisions (which you would think they have the right anyway), it becomes obvious that the GB?s notorious hair-splitting becomes unquestionable law written in stone (or at least carefully guarded silly putty, until the next ?stretching? of their interpretation).

    Correct version: ?When faced with a question in this area, each Christian is responsible to obtain details from medical personnel and then make a personal decision according to their own conscience, just so long as their decision conforms exactly to the interpretation of the Governing Body at that exact moment, otherwise there could be grounds for disfellowshipping.??SAHS Edition, 2004.

    ?SAHS

  • Mary
    Mary
    Hi! I don't really have any answers for you, but I just want to say that I wish you the best on your surgery, and for a speedy recovery!!!

    Thanks!! Much appreciated!!

    if someone actually did decide, for example, to store their own blood for autologous transfusion, they would no-doubt face a judicial committee, with a likely unfavorable result.

    You're right.......not that I'd be dumb enough to ever consider telling them. And if they did change it to become a "conscience matter", does that mean that they'll re-instate all those that were disfellowshipped in years past for doing something that they now consider to be okay?

  • TD
    TD
    JW's may now have blood transported to another location, treated, returned and then re-infused as long as it is part of an ongoing therapy

    Yes, it's interesting to read through the threads at noblood.org. You can see that even JW's balk when the double-think reaches a certain level.

    As long as it's part of an ongoing therapy, the patient's blood can be collected, taken to another location, leucodepleted and irradiated, brought back and then reinfused back into the patient. Even though this involves the storage of blood, be careful not to use the "S" word to the Witness patient!

    I wonder if predonation in preparation for a upcoming scheduled surgery would be distinguishable from predonation for it's own sake? In other words, if you viewed the predonation as part of a phased surgical procedure, would it not arguably be an "ongoing therapy" itself?

  • allpoweredup
    allpoweredup

    TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ELDERS: BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS ARE BIBLICALLY SUPPORTED: Acts 15:20 says abstain from blood but 1 Samuel 14:32-5 says Saul's army ate unBLED meat to not starve and no verses show God not forgiving them. Christ says God also forgave David's eating temple holy bread to survive and that God wants Mercy Not Sacrifice. (Mt 12) The May 22, 1994 Awake tells of 26 Jehovah's Witness kids who died without transfusions, and by common sense in massive bleeding as in car wrecks blood expanders won't save lives http://www.ajwrb.org. About 3 Jehovah's Witnesses die daily earthwide from the unscriptural policy! (Blood On The Altar by David Reed) Yet most normal identical twins transfuse whole blood to each other through a shared placenta and childrens' whole blood is sometimes found in mothers years after birth-- the approved arrangement by God using nature. The book of Acts is about not using blood in all senses and contexts but in the sense of not using it anymore than strangled meat for temple sacrifices -- not in regard to transfusions. Please share copies of this with others to help save more lives.

  • Frannie Banannie
    Frannie Banannie
    Also, seeing as I'd be going over to the good ol' USofA for the surgery, does anyone know if there would be any problem getting my blood through Customs at the Canada/U.S border?

    Not if you keep it IN your body till you get where you're going, Mary

    BTW, as I'm sure someone else here will tell you, there is a machine used for recycling one's own spilled blood back into your body during surgery....the surgeons who did back surgery on my daughter used it and it worked perfectly for her....we were still witlesses then.

    Frannie B

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