by zen nudist 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Spencer gets gifts for Christmas and he knows they are from me. I personally dont think parents should lie to their kids about Santa and the Tooth Fairy.
For me what I LOVE about Christmas, is decorating and baking, and preparing a HUGE meal and having all the family and friends over. I love Christmas shopping and picking out gifts. My Christmas is never religious. I just love to have a fire going, carols playing, and people I love and respect around to enjoy each other. It's happiness to me.
St. Nicolaus was a really nice quy who through language evoltuion became Santa Claus. Giving gifts to children is a wonderfull thing.
You have 2 seperate parts: The Birth of Jesus (ok so its not the real date...whatever) and the honoring of St. Nick. Whats so bad about that?
Yes it is now a commerical holliday, but at the same time there are many who celebrate Christmas for what it really represents :)
Hey Zen nudist, what do you think of parents who wouldnt think of lying to their kids about a mythical santa claus, but on the same hand lie to them about a "mythical" armageddon or a mythical 1914 generation? I have always loved celebrating christmas and knew all along that we were missing out and being deprived of a normal upbringing. I basically celebrate it now as my finances allow it, and I love seeing all those lights and visiting with my non jw family during that season. I dont see anything wrong telling your kids about santa claus, its just a normal thing for kids growing up. I dont think many kids have been severely traumatized when they found out the truth about santa claus, however finding out the truth about jehovah's witnesses and living in that damaging and emotionally frustrating environment is a far worse alternative.
Dave
Hey Zen nudist, what do you think of parents who wouldnt think of lying to their kids about a mythical santa claus, but on the same hand lie to them about a "mythical" armageddon or a mythical 1914 generation?
as I see it the difference is that parents who hold the BS [belief system] about the bible are not intentionally lying to their children until they cross a line and pretend to KNOW their BS is true...which all to many do....
as to SATAN CLAUS, the parents are intentionally lying to their children to support a tradition which is passed along mindlessly just like all others... perhaps most kids are not significantly harmed by learning that their parents lied to them for years for no necessary reason... after all they probably watch their parents lie about all sort of other things.... humans seem to be liars by nature... sponteniously beginning to lie around the age of four.
I guess it only bugs me because I was born a bad liar (^_^)
I know that when I was growing up JW, I hated the "...ber" months (October, November, December). I hated Christmas, because I never got to participate in the joy of the season. When I left the Borg, I still had a level of anti-Christmas hatred (mainly because I was managing a store in one of the largest malls in So. Cal.).
What changed for me was my kids, and seeing them happy on Christmas morning unwrapping presents. Like I posted before, I never taught my kids that Santa was real, only that he was a representation of Christmas.
As far as the ascertion (made by you) that God is the adult version of Santa Claus, and assuming you are refering to the Judeo-Christian God. A simple comparison reading of the Gospels and the Epistles paint a much different picture of how and why God's gift is given versus Santa's.
LABD
I was born and raised a JW and as such have never celebrated christmas. I have to say that I've never missed it. I've always found it a relief not to have to get involved with all the pre and post stress it seems to cause. I worked for years in retail and the hype and moaning and grumbling and extra planning and work that Christmas caused started early August. We'd get Easter plans in October. It was all about money, money, money and I'm glad I haven't got caught up in it all, despite the true meanings behind it all.
I'm no scrooge and in fact I delight in being able to get something for my kids when I can afford it and not think "they have to wait till christmas or Birthday." My parents always used to get us Assembly presents and I think (in our congregation and my husbands at least) this was common amongst most JW families. Besides the times they'd come home and give us something just because they loved us and not because it was Christmas time and thereby expected.
I watched an interview with Janet Jackson once and she said one of the things she hated the most about being a JW was the missing Birthdays, Christmasses etc. I find that hard to understand, unless her family life was bad anyway. We knew were loved and that was the most important thing. Too many people place too much on toys and not enough on being together as a family. Not just once a year but every day.
With my own children I've seen that they would much rather we spend an hour playing with them and an empty box then they play on their own with a high tech toy. Christmas works at bringing families together (as long as the arguments don't start) but I always found it a shame that it was only a few days every year rather than every week or every day.
Having said all that I do have a weakness for fairy lights and street decorations.
I find the mindless devoution to christmas ..
I thought you were gonna say devolution here..
I look at this real simply - nobody really cares! I mean remember when you were a JW and you would explain the whole pagan deal to some worldly person, a lot of them really don't care. Its like that with the materialism and the myths and whatnot.
People like to celebrate, that's about it for the general population. Its an excuse to party as far as I'm concerned. Whether its a holiday or something else, people just like to feel good, and its just stuff they do to feel good. Unconscious behavior comes in all forms, this is why I have this idea of messing with people by trick or treating as Santa Claus, the Easter bunny or a JW, or just go trick or treating on Christmas after some people singing carols or whatever. No doubt people would notice its out of place, but its like if you don't really care then so what?
I agree completely with franklin J. Christmas is what you make of it. There is no need to max out credit cards to feel the Joy of it.
god is santa for adults! i like that concept, seems to work for me lol.
i was raised in, my parents didn't tell me about ol st. nick and when i heard about it at school i thought it was a total crock from the get go! LOL i never would have believed it as a child.
my child was about 4 when we started celebrating. i explained to her that other children are taught from the time they are born that santa brings the presents, etc. but i told her that it is a wonderful story, much like cinderella and such and that the presents you get come from the hard work of the people who love you.
that really stuck with her, and i believe made her much more grateful for the gifts she gets, christmas or otherwise since she knows that people have to work to give and not just some fairies from some whopping endless toys r us drop them off while she's asleep.
now that she's getting older, and her non-jw friends are starting to question their belief in the big SC, she is wise and tactful enough to let them keep their belief if they want to. she doesn't say that she doesn't believe it, she just lets them talk. she actually told me just a little while ago one of her friends asked if she believed in him, she said she never thought about christmas that way, and then let the girl talk. both were satisfied with the convo, and the other girl will figure it out when she's ready.
thing i hate about it is how angry, tense, and nasty people overall get that time of year. they're buying presents they hate for people they barely tolerate when it comes to co-workers and such and i think that christmas should just be a family thing. thankfully, my husband's family is small so we don't have too much to buy.
it is definitely about tradition though, when my MIL brought a box of (all non religious) ornaments from my husband's childhood and explained what each one meant to them as we hung them up the first time...that was magic for me. that is all that christmas is to me; nothing religious (i call it x-mas mostly) but a time to be with the people you love and reconnect.
you might find, in time, that the idea appeals to you if you have friends/relatives who are out. but if all your family are jw's, it can be a very, very lonely time of year.
Zen, remember: nothing sacred, nothing profane.
I'm.. dreaming.. of a white... Kwanzaa..
