Was there really a global flood? (new publication reasoning) (page 2)

ColdRedRain

So according to JW logic, since kids believe in Santa Claus, he's real.

What a religious revelation!

If the apostle Paul was correct when he said the "gosple had been taken (my paraphrase) to the entire world for a witness" then it would seem that a "global flood" could easily be regional and qualify for "all the known world". The fact that Jesus referred to commonly held myths in an effort to enlighten His generation is not an indication of His lack of knowledge, rather a recognition that those to whom He spoke had limited knowledge. To waste time on a geophysical lecture would be unproductive.

Carmel

azaria

(many cultures have a flood myth)

Personally I do believe that a global flood did happen. I did read somewhere that native Indians in, I believe, Arizona believed that a fairly extensive flood did happen there. I do have The Indians Book (Authentic Native American Legends, Lore and Music) but can't find this story. I did have a problem taking the bible too literally and did ask a pastor once about it. He gave me a brochure but it didn't satisfy me. I can't believe that every animal, insect, plant life,etc fit into an ark, that everything was killed off, except ofcourse water creatures. To me the only thing that might be plausable is that it happened a lot longer ago than we realize. I do believe that things, people did gradually evolve. Otherwise how do you explain the different races of people. Anyway I think I did finally find the story so I will copy it here. It's rather interesting to me anyway.

The Mojave-Apaches are a band of Majave Indians whose original home was in the Verde Valley of Arizona.

The Story of Gomoidema Pokoma-Kiaka (The First Woman who made the Son of God)

Many years ago we lived not here upon this earth but down under the ground. And there came a time when we had no fruit and there was nothing to eat. So we sent the humming-bird to see what he could find. Wherever he might find fruit or food of any kind, there the people would go. He flew up into the sky, and there he saw a grape-vine that had its roots in the underworld and grew up through a hole in the middle of the sky into the upper world. The humming-bird saw the hole in the sky and flew through it, and came to a land where mescal and fruits and flowers of all kinds were growing. It was a good land. It was this world.

So the humming-bird flew back and told the people that he had seen a beautiful country above. "Let us all go up there," he said. So they all went up, climbing on the grape-vine. They climbed without stopping until they had come out hrough the hole in the sky into the upper world. But they left behind them in the nderworld and frog-folk, who where blind. Now when the people had lived for a while in that land they heard a noise, and they wondered at it and sent a man to look down the hole, through which they had come, to see what made the noise. The man looked and saw the waters were rising from the underworld and were already so high that they nearly reached the mouth of the hole. The people said, "The blind frongs below have made this flood, and if it rises out of the hole it will wash us all away." So they took counsel together, and then they hollowed out a tree like a trough and put into it plenty of rruits and blankets. The chose a beautiful maiden and laid her in the rough, and closed it up and said, "Now if the waters come and we are all washed away, she will be saved alive."

The flood came up through the hole, and the people ran to the mountains, but though the ountains were high the waters rose over them.

The trough floated like a boat, and the flood kept rising, till at last it nearly touched the sky. Still the waters rose till the waves dashed the trough against the sky, where it struck with a loud noise. It struck first to the south, then to the west, then to the north, then nearly to theeast. The the flood began to go down.

The oeple had said to the woman, "If you hear the waters going down, wait till the rough rests on the earth, then make a little opening and look around you."

When the trough rested on the ground the woman opened it and went out. She looked all around her, over all the world, but saw non one. All the people had been drowned. The the woman thought, "How can Ibear children and make a new people?"

She went up into the mountains early, before sunrise, and lay there alone. The the daylight came and the beams from the sun shone warm upon the woman, and the water dripped from the crag, and in this way she conceived, and bore a daughter. When the child was grown to maidenhood the mother said to her, "Do you know, my daughter, how you came to be?" And the maid said, "No.:

"I will show you," said the mother.

So she led her daughter up into the mountains, and bade her lie down as she herself had lain. And the maid lay on the mountain all day. Next morning early, before sunrise, the mother went to her, and she lay down upon her daughter and looked at the sun. The she quickly sprang up, and in this way the maiden conceived of the sun, and the child that she bore was the Son of God-Sekala Ka-amja, "The-One-Who-Never-Died."

That was tiring. Hopefully there weren't too many mistakes. Some may say so what, what does that prove. The only thing that I'm trying to point out is that on the other side of the world a similar story was told, granted the story could have travelled with the nomads (from Africa, India to Siberia to North America-but I'm just guessing. I personally can't take the old testament too literally; some may call me a heretic for saying that. But to me to take it too literally, it makes no sense.

mineralogist

This - if any - proofs only a flood. Wether it was global or local isn't even touched!

frenchbabyface

1. The bible says that it's true (duh! ... isn't that what we were questioning in the first place?!)

... ...

Blueblades

"Keep in mind that God made humans to live forever. It was Adam's sin that led to death.Those who lived before " THE FLOOD " were closer to perfection than we are today, so they lived much longer. But each one died within a thousand years." from Reasoning Book, page 95.

No- where else is the Flood mentioned in the reasoning book, it is not listed under Principal Subjects or in the back Index.

It is mentioned above in answering the question concerning the lenght of mankind's age before ??? "THE FLOOD".No proof is given in the reasoning book at all.The statement above is saying that "THE FLOOD" is the demarcation between long life and the shorter life span we now experience.???

Linking the life-span to the flood with out any proof other than the Bible stating it is no scientific proof, it is circular reasoning.Because the Bible, Moses, Jesus, etc.said it,is supposed to make it true, of course it's true because the wtbts says so.

Carmel

Mitochondrial DNA is sufficient evidence for me.

carmel

patio34

Linking the life-span to the flood with out any proof other than the Bible stating it is no scientific proof, it is circular reasoning. Because the Bible, Moses, Jesus, etc.said it,is supposed to make it true, of course it's true because the wtbts says so. --------Blueblades

This is also called a "useless tautology," I believe. It's repetition of an assertion to "prove" that it's true. Parents do this by saying "because I said so!"

President Bush did it recently by saying "Why do we say there was a relationship between Hussein and Al Queda? Because there was a relationship between Hussein and Al Queda."

Pat

Pole

patio34,

The phrase:

useless tautology

is a tautology by itself . But it's irrelevant to your argument, I know.

Panda

AHHH... just like a former dub to bring the flood question around to a somehow relevant (NOT) politically snide remark (Patio)

Anyway will you all repeat after me "FICTION" is not reality. Myth is fiction told for various societal organising strategm. The Bible is myth. If you don't believe me then just read the whole book cover to cover. Its not history. Maybe a phrase here or there is memorable. But come on the entire idea of king killing (or sacrifice) was much older than the Hebrew tribe. Even in the 1st century there were plenty of magicians turning water into wine etc...

There was no global flood. However, every culture has flood stories which actually began with real floods which were usually seasonal so nobody needed to question their existence.

But for those who choose to believe the Bible story please do not try to explain it scientifically. It's not gonna happen. If you have faith just realise that has nothing to do with science.

What I find so sad is that while there were treasures of myth from Europe and the Americas why choose the middle eastern myths?

Was there really a global flood? (new publication reasoning)

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