No Body At The Funeral?

by Englishman 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Mini's thread about weddings and funerals had me intrigued. So did Mulans reply about having a private and separate service.

    Well, I've referred to this before, but it might be of interest to those who haven't been here too long.

    Back in the early 80's, the idea of having a body-less funeral was put forward by some dubs in the UK. No coffin, casket, whatever you might call it, simply an inspiring talk in the KH while the deceaseds remains were disposed of by the local undertaker.

    We're talking of a cremation or burial where no-one attends. No-one at all.

    My Dad and his witness male friends were all for this idea, and made it known that when they expired, their corpses were simply to be disposed of with no ceremony whatsoever. No wives, children, no-one at all.

    In my Dad's group of pals, the first to die was Ron Darnell, a PO from greater London. Ron had been an eminent jazz trumpet player in his time and had even managed to convert the renowned saxophonist Don Rendell to dubdom.

    There was no funeral for Ron, just a short talk in the KH that wasn't even related to the time of his cremation. Everyone marvelled at this new idea, how refreshing, no morbidity whatsoever!

    Hmm.

    Later that year, my Dad also died. Again, there was no funeral. I attended the KH talk and refused point blank to speak to any of those present, except for my Mother, who I thought needed all the support she could get rather than the ludicrous pretence that it was somehow improper to grieve.

    It was absolutely awful. There was no closure, no saying goodbye, no tears, nothing at all to say goodbye to except for his shoes which were still under his favourite chair.

    I don't know if this practise still goes on, buy my Mother has now said that she too wants a body-less funeral when her time comes.

    ..and I think it's a dreadful idea.

    Ah well.

    Englishman.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Oh My God! That is AWFUL!

    I'm shocked!

    How LOW can this F**KING religion go?

    They're all for this bloody "individual means nothing" tripe that they can't even honour / remember someone's life and allow family to say goodbye properly. How horrid to just dispose of their body and have a cold hearted "talk" at the hall! What - was that just fitted in between the f'ing public talk and watchtower study on a Sunday morning?

    I'm totally disgusted with that! Its bad enough trying to deal with the person not being there anymore but to just "send off the body to be disposed of" and oh lets all carry on as normal ..........what a disgrace.

    IMO, it all stems from them trying to be segregated from anything non-JW (therefore no embarrassing nonJW funerals to attend and what not) and the sickening "individuals don't matter" bollocks. Plus the warped "we don't grieve like the world do" which IMO is probably the cause of countless suicides after having to suppress your emotions about a death.

    Sirona

  • Been there
    Been there

    It could also be a way to save money..........you know how expensive funerals can be.

    No frills, it can't cost that much to "DISPOSE" of a body, so that leaves lots more money for the contribution box if it isn't wasted on the dead.

  • FMZ
    FMZ

    Eman, I agree with you. The thought of this sickens me. We must have time to mourn our loved ones. Sure it is sad, sure it is life changing, but it must be dealt with... These are feelings that cannot just be bottled up, and I think a public service helps people deal with it outwardly.

    I am more than comfortable with my own mortality, and as far as what happens to my body after I am gone really doesn't matter to me, but for the sake of my family and friends, I would like them to have a chance to say goodbye, to see my body at rest.

    I sincerely hope that when the time comes, you will have all the chance you need to tell your mother that you love her and say goodbye.

    FMZ

  • Sweetp0985
    Sweetp0985

    I don't recall what book or magazine I was reading recently but it was telling about all the ways a person can leave "donations/contibutions" to JW's when they die. I will look for it when I get home today because I just read this the other night and was quite sickened. They were even telling how you can avoid and also claim a deduction on taxes by giving it to them. They even went as far as when you right out your will you can leave monetary contributions for the WWW. I think they even said something about donating jewelry too but make sure when you send it to NY you have a note written with it saying it was a "GIFT"....I agree with Been There and his statement that costly funerals are taking away from the contributions that could be going to NY. Bunch of crooks.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Just been doing a bit of research into this.

    A 1980 WT introduced the idea via the usual double meaning:

    >>>>WHAT

    ABOUT FUNERALS?

    A Christian funeral provides for disposal of the body in a way that meets legal sanitary requirements and is socially acceptable. It furnishes an opportunity to give comfort to the bereaved and a message of hope to all in attendance. No, a Christian funeral is neither a sacrament to obtain the supposed repose of the soul, nor an act of appeasement toward the "departed spirit." Also, Christians do not consider it possible to "consecrate" the dead by the manner of burial. Since the dead are "conscious of nothing at all," actions taken toward them cannot either benefit or appease them, or influence their standing in God?s eyes. (Ps. 6:5; 115:17) However, the funeral (or a memorial service, as when the corpse is not present) does comfort the surviving relatives and demonstrates the esteem in which the dead loved one was held.<<<<<<<<<<

    Notice the way it's written. It certainly isn't advocating a funeral service with a later memorial service. It's saying "OR..... when the corpse is not present" to put the idea into good dubby heads.

    Englishman.

  • Scully
    Scully

    I haven't had occasion to attend very many funerals, maybe a dozen all together. However, at none of the JW Memorial Services? I ever attended was there ever a casket. And only one of them had a photograph of the deceased set up on a table next to the podium.

    The Memorial Talk? devoted perhaps one or two brief paragraphs about the person's life, but only to the extent that it related to their Service to Jehovah?. The rest of it was an infomercial for JW doctrine and invitations to newcomers to Study the Bible? with JWs.

    In contrast, going to the funeral service of a non-JW relative the speaker (who did not know my relative) took the time in advance to find out about who my relative was, what were the person's passions and joys in life, what were the things they were most proud of and the loving relationships that they had with other people. It honoured the person's life and the most cherished memories we had of them. The people who didn't know my relative very well, most certainly knew what was most dear to their heart by the time the service was finished. We all cried for this person's loss at the service.

    I have never cried at a JW funeral. Never.

    Love, Scully

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    well I know in Montreal it is common in JW funerals for the body to be disposed of and a talk given at the hall - sans corps.

    For many it is a money issue. Funerals are vastly expensive and few of the JWs I knew could afford even a modest one using the services of a funeral home.

    In some cases the use of the funeral home is for one night only. The attitude seems to be that the family doesn't need to go through this torture of the funeral and sitting beside a dead body for 3 days.

    As for the grieving thing - personally I think people close to the person will do that anyways regardless of the style of funeral. When my JW friend died (I was at her bedside) the family arranged the bodyless funeral infomercial. I was asked to interpret but didn't think I could do it. I cried through the talk. My thoughts were not on the talk at all. But I spent the time thinking of her and the family. I did my grieving. And I think most JWs actually hear little of the talk. We all know it is mainly for any non-JWs anyways and not for the friends and family. I don't think you need a body present to mourn. That is a process that will happen

    It is however an individual matter about how long or deeply a person will mourn and I agree most JWs give little time to it believing they will see their loved one soon.

    While some of you may be horrified it is no different than many people who for various reasons have no body. It's just a different way and those who do it still grieve - well in the JW way

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    I've never been to a JW service where the body was present either.

    I'm not sure how I feel about it personally. If I were to go before I'm really old and decrepit, I'm donating anything that is useful, and leaving my cadaver to the teaching hospital. Not sure how that would work for a casket funeral. I think I'd rather my friends hold a wake, or a party at a local pub anyways. More fun for them, plus I don't think they allow caskets in pubs, so problem solved.

    IMO, the barbarism is in not acknowledging the full life of the deceased. No eulogy, no "words" given by family or close friends. How is that honoring their life? The talks I've heard are just another indoctrination session.

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    I know in Montreal it is common in JW funerals for the body to be disposed of and a talk given at the hall - sans corps.

    I agree with Lady Lee,

    In my part of Canada (west coast) it is the norm to hold only a memorial service and not have the body present. In fact I believe that if a family requested that the body be present at a KH the elders would try to persuade them to give up the idea or hold the service at a funeral home instead.

    The last time I remember a casket at a service was over 40 years ago. I am sure now the WT considers anything that might distract people from the infomercial that is the reality of a witness funeral would be discouraged.

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