The Society is just made up of imperfect humans, and they make mistakes. Absolutely true. And if it's true, then don't ever claim to be speaking for God.After I had been beat down by local elders and "stumbled" out of the Org one of them came to me, not exactly admitting they were wrong, but said "I know you have been stumbled, but were imperfect too." This is after the elders tried to force me to obey there insane rules telling me they had been appointed as judges for Jehovah and had Jehovah's spirit behing their decisions. Others said things like "Jehovah uses imperfect people to run his Organization, so we can expect there will be problems. You just have to hang in there like the faithful Jews did in Jesus's day. They continued to obey the Pharisees, because at that time they were Jehovah's chosen people on this earth."
Talked w/a JW Yesterday - So glad I'm out
by Seeker4 25 Replies latest jw friends
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cyber-sista
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AlanF
Howdy Seeker4! Excellent post! I hope you continue.
We should try to touch bases. I was wondering just the other day how you were doing.
AlanF
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Soledad
HI Seeker! thanks for your post. I really enjoyed it. I remember always looking for your posts on H2O. they were so good!
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ezekiel3
Seeker,
I am interested in more information about the dating of ice sheets/no flood 4,000 years ago. Will you or someone else recommend a source for this?
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Seeker4
AlanF, so great to hear from you! Hope you're still doing well. Things are going wonderfully for me. Lots of good things happening.
Just to add a bit more to this weekend. Just came back from talking with my son and daughter-in-law. Her best friend growing up was a Witness, who is still a friend and lives near her. The Witness girl had a rough time of it - sexually abused by her father (an interesting case there - he was and is a JW. When faced with the accusations from his daughter, he never denied that they were true, but stated that if they did happen, they were during what I think are referred to as fugue incidents by psychologists, or essentially conscious blackouts, where no events during the time period are remembered.) According to WTS policy, this means he can never again serve as an elder or MS (because he didn't deny the accusation, while also not confessing), but conveniently sidesteps the issue of having to confess to a serious sin (and serious crime - he was investigated by the police but no charges were filed for lack of evidence in support of the daughter's accusations). It also sidesteps the issue of having to call his daughter a liar.
The daughter was disfellowshipped at around 14 (We strongly felt that her baptism should never have been considered valid, as she was too young and rather unbalanced mentally when it happened. But alas.). She went on to have some pretty rough years. She was quite striking, with a terrific figure, and actually became a stripper for a while, had three kids by two or three different men, and I'm sure there were some other pretty bad things happening to her during that time of which I'm unaware. Then she married and started getting her life straightened out. Considering the way she'd been treated by the JWs, essentially tossed aside and abandoned at her most vulnerable, I couldn't imagine her ever wanting to become a Witness again. But she got reinstated. Then she reestablished a relationship with her father, despite his having shunned her while she was disfellowshipped, and refused to ever acknowldge that she was fucked up essentially because of his abuse.
It's sort of pathetic.
But anyway, my daughter-in-law has been reading the Bible some because this girl, now once again a Witness, is telling her that she has to believe like the Witnesses or she can't receive God's blessing. So I brought my DIL a few Bible translations so she can find one that make sense when she reads it, and answered a bunch of her questions about the Bible, JWs, etc.
But as I think of this, it sort of shows that mindless Witness mentality which keeps so many people tied to the organization when any kind of commonsense would have made the average person run for the hills. Here's this girl, who, while she was young and serving Jehovah and should have been receiving his blessing, was sexually abused by her father and two other brothers in the congregation. They all deny anything, (or say they can't remember, as in the case of the dad) and remain to this day in good standing in the congregation (that old two-witnesses rule, that has freed many a Witness molester, as Bill Bowen and others have proved). She's screwed up by it all, and understandably so, gets into some trouble and is disfellowshipped, and her life goes to hell. Yet now, 10 years later, she still believes that in Jehovah and that he will bless your life if you're worshipping him, and that you're so much better off to be a JW and not one of those worldly people suffering under Satan's dominion.
My god, here was a girl who, if there is a Jehovah in the Witness understanding of him, was as much abandoned and abused by God as she was by her earthly father. Neither one of them helped her, which puts the blame on both of them.
Where in hell was Jehovah when he should have been protecting one of his dedicated sheep, and in this case a particularly vulnerable and tender sheep - the little girl she was at 10 or 12 when she was being molested? The mindlessness of this goes straight to the heart of why the JWs continue on decade after decade despite all the screwups and obvious mistakes. There are just an incredible number of non-thinking people out there. You're a child, a dedicated Witness doing nothing wrong, and Jehovah allows you to be molested and abused by people who remain in good standing in the congregation. Your life turns to crap because of the abuse, the lives of the abusers become better and better, and then you have the audacity to tell a non-JW, whose life has been way better than yours, that they won't be blessed by God until they become a JW like you!?!?
THIS is why I've left all religion behind. The warped thinking it tends to produce. Now, I don't condemn this girl for where she's at - I understand so much of her background. Actually, my son reminded me today that she actually came and lived with us for a while during all of this, something I'd forgotten (my god, we started counting up, and there were well over a half dozen troubled kids - Witness and non-Witness - who ended up living with us from a few weeks to a year or more in the 80s and 90s, and a few I never remembered til my son brought them up [this has nothing to do with age!]), and we've remained close to her through all these years, good and bad.
These two examples, the one in my first post, and then this one, just drive home the point of why the JWs, and so many groups like them, are both powerful and reprehensible, with no end in sight. I wrote here several times over the past few years that I felt the Witnesses would be having serious problems with membership by 2010. I may be wrong. I may very well have underestimated the capacity of people to be used, abused and lied to.
S4
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anglise
Hallo again S4 (a real blast from the past)
Brilliant post, thankyou. It was all so very familiar, I almost felt you had insider info about things that had happened to us both in and out of the org.
I may very well have underestimated the capacity of people to be used, abused and lied to.
People are often desperate and sad and the JW's (and other religions) catch them during these vulnerable periods. Most never really find out enough about the WTBTS to be able to leave without feeling guilty.
You can take people out of the borg, it is so much harder to take the borg out of them.
Dont leave it too long before posting again S4.
Anglise
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JNS
Hello, Seeker4
I guess I shouldn't be here because the things I am reading really disgust me seeing how you guys are such haters of Jehovah witness. I really have to comment on your two post and please don't get affended I know at times I can be very blunt about the things I say. Now listen, in your first post you sounded so sure about how from this one elder that all JW is wrong, demanding of rules and so on but if you have been in the congregation as long as you say you have then you would know that not all are like that. I'm not a JW yet but would like to be one just from being in the religion as a younger girl and the people that I have met who are beautiful inside and out, knowing that putting your faith in Jehovah your whole life changes. In my short time I have seen plenty of people in the faith that be on some other stuff but what you have to understand is that every person is imperfect I don't know if you have accepted that you are imperfect also but you are and I can say that with out ever seeing you but by what you are saying and exactly how you think you know it all about something you obvisouly don't. One thing that I would like to know from reading your post is you say you had been a JW for 35 years, but if JW's are so bad and the regilion is so demanding and unwrothy why where you in it for so long? I mean I'm sure with in the first 2 to 5 years you would see the so called down falls and flaws about JW's and not to mention you were one of these terrible people for 35 years so exactly what do you think of yourself? I mean thats a large part life to have wasted as your saying so why? also what about your wife?
Second you cannot judge a whole area of people by a small limit of people who may be to deep into the religion. Another thing for you to question the bible is crazy thats a definate no no and I know that all regilions refer to the bible about a lot of things and its not to question and try to make science and reality have more truth to it, cuz it doesn't. If you read it you would know that everything that is going on today is exactly what God said would happen so how smart do you or anyother loser on this page that agrees with you sound? Did you think about that?
Third, your second post talks about a girl that has been raped by her father at a young age who where both JW's. Yes the man was very wrong for what he did, but he is a big sinner and like I said we are all liveing in a devils world so the terriable is bound to happen but do you think that the father hasn't or isn't paying for this, what he did to this girl who was and according to you is still faithful to God? Think about this, JOB went through a whole lot wrost then this girl that you speak of, all to show his faithfulness to God. Through the terror this man has faced he still kept faith in God and because of this he got better and was presented with more then he had before. Or what about Abraham who god tested his faith by ordering him to murder his son for him, God didn't let him kill his son because he just wanted to see how faithful he was. Thats exactly what has happen to the girl, when her father raped her she was suppose to turn away from god because she would think "why would god let this happen to me?" but she didn't. Gettin disfellowship was also suppose to turn her away which didn't she stayed faithful and went back to the faith. Another thing to look at alot of people that are raped don' t even make it to live another day but she has been able to live many so in so many ways she has been blessed.
Fourth, The girl is wrong for telling your child that she will not be blessed if she doesn't become a JW but that is what she believes and don' t act like JW's are the only ones that say that because they are not, people that go to chruch are just as bad, I had a friend who I am not friends with now, but she use to tell me that I was going to hell because I didn't go to chruch and am not baptized which is a whole lot of mess because while telling me this she isnt showing me whats so great about the chruch folk because looking at her she gives oral sex, involves herself in forniacation and other things not to mention living in a house hold that is not all that great pretty much no where near it and gets bad grades verses me who has a good family, good grades and am still pure to god and am under the practices of the JW faith.
So before you sit there and put down JWs think about it. Also please reply to this you and others who have to say something your comments are welcomed.
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AlanF
Seeker4, are you also being a shill under the handle JNS?
JNS, you've completely proved a number of points that Seeker4 made. You perfectly illustrate the mindless cult-think inculcated into people by the JWs.
AlanF
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avishai
do you think that the father hasn't or isn't paying for this, what he did to this girl who was and according to you is still faithful to God? Think about this, JOB went through a whole lot wrost then this girl that you speak of, all to show his faithfulness to God. Through the terror this man has faced he still kept faith in God and because of this he got better and was presented with more then he had before.
You asked us not to get offended by your post. Too late for me. First off, If i had molested my daughter, fugue state or not, I'd kill myself. If someone else in the cong. molested my daughter, i'd turn them in, and might have to be restrained. You might say, he did'nt admit it. Well, as a father, I would deny this so fiercely it's not even funny if I did'nt do it, not make up some bullshit fugue stat story.
Comparing what this man did to Job is sick. As far as the bible tells it, Job did'nt molest his daughters to get the hassle he got. This man is still in the community, still able to continue abusiing his daughter through lack of acknowledgment, and likely abusing other children.
Lemme let you in on a little secret. Child molesters don't just "get better". 90% of them reoffend, and those are only the ones that get caught. The ones that DO get better need extensive thrapy to get there. Keeping his faith in God notwithstanding, the cong. is'nt helping the abused, but allowing abusers to remain within, not telling anyone what happened.
We don't hate JW's here, at least not most of us. We hate what they have done to us and our families. Speaking of which, here is a link to a story about what they have done to my family. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/38146/1.ashx, here is the update http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/46670/1.ashx
Go to silentlambs.com and read the experiences of what happened to people. Then come back and tell me if you still feel qualified to make judgements from your lofty "tower"
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toreador
Great post seeker4. We need more around here like you!
Tor