I am a sociopath - WT Society's fault???

by Confucious 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Lady Lee

  Well a lot of people like to toss around labels. Usually they don't mean anything and believe me the sociopaths I knew no way would I or anyone else who knew them yell at them "You are a psycho?"

  Be kind to yourself and know that we have some cathing up to do. The WTS did do a number on us and it does affect us in many ways - depression, anxieties, stress related emotional and physical problems. We act out our anger sometimes on ourselves or others.

  The really nice thing about something like this is that recovery is possible. We may not wind up being the person we would have been without the WTS experience but we can learn to lead normal happy lives that we can feel good about.

  Read and learn. Your ability to test the waters and look honestly at yourself and your actions will help you along the road
• 

  talesin

  I'm glad to hear that you feel a bit better, confucious.

  Noone should be calling you that, it's a severe label for people to throw around casually.

  Too often (in real life), I hear people making those types of comments, and it bugs the hell out of me.

  ( Edit: heh, Lee, simulpost, we are on the same track! )
• 

  Confucious

  Guys,
  
  All of you who've posted (and Gals).
  
  All this is REALLY helping.
  
  Really.
  
  Con
• 

  avengers

  Hey Confucious:

  I was planning to put up a seperate topic on this subject this week before I take off for the BBQ in the UK.
  A lot has been going on in my life and I've been looking for the time to do it.
  Well, the next two weeks are mine. I'll take today for this forum and tomorrow clean the house
  and prepare for the BBQ. (You better beware. Avengers is on the way) lol

  I decided it would not be wise for me to start a new topic open to everyone, because of some delicate info,
  but I think it's ok to do so here in this thread.
  If you read the thread referred to by talesin http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/72216/2.ashx you know
  that someone whom I thought was a good friend turns out to be a psychopath.

  I'm not a professional on this subject, because I was not interested in this field. When I look back though
  I wish I would have had more knowledge about these psychiatric deviations. People whom I trusted and
  loved turn out to be predators; whom I gave way more than the benefit of the doubt and I first did not
  want to believe it.

  Honesty forces me to realize that there are indeed predators. Predators in the very sense of the word.
  Once a predator has you in his scope beware! It's almost impossible to get out.
  I realize now the importance of the Hare Chart and all the knowledge of some fine posters.
  I and some of my aquaintances compared the Hare Chart on him and according to me he scores
  a perfect 40, yet some give him a 38. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. 38 it is.
  This is very high and makes him very dangerous. He would be a very good case for DR. Hare.
  
  At last he moved out of my house. Not after having several heated arguments. I would not submit to
  his manipulation; which reminded me of Borg tactics. So maybe 30 years of Borg was not wasted after all.
  30 years I submitted to Borg tactics and when I saw him using the same tactics I would not submit to him

  This causes anger. They will be nice to you, for grooming purposes.

  He decided to move out but it was hell. I told him
  our "friendship" has ended for good and that our lives have to go their seperate ways, for good.
  He kept asking me why we have to end our ?friendship?; which shows me that a sociopath does not realize he is one; ofcourse the ones
  that have been busted and diagnosed know, making them even more dangerous.

  The moment he was gone it was like I had the same feeling when I decided to
  escape from the Borg. Like I said in my other post: I don't envy Law Enforcement Officers
  whom have to hunt down these predators. Because that's what they are.
  
  What bugs me though is my own selfishness; my own lack of love.
  There's no way to prove to the police that he's a pedophile, even though I know it to be a fact.
  Now he's out on the streets outside my view. Who's gonna be preyed on next, because it will
  happen? When he was around me I could help prevent him scoping little girls and women,
  but now I can't. But I could not handle him, so I set a sociopath out on the loose.
  This is very sad. But if any victims decide to come forward, they will have my support.
  
  Sorry to hijack your thread, but I'll get back to your thread now.

  First of all, it takes a big man (that is I, hehehe) to admit he is a sociopath.

  IMO a sociopath does not realize he is one. Unless he's busted and diagnosed. So IMO you don't qualify.

  Honestly, I think I'm a very caring person.

  A sociopath does not know what honesty is. Again you don't qualify

  A sociopath cares about nobody. They prey on people. When you think they care they've manipulated
  you into thinking that and you're well under way in going down. So again you don't qualify. Too bad. lol.

  I've learned enough to stay well away from sociopaths. This includes the "leaders" of the WT.

  BTW. I have to agree with LL and Talesin. They know their "stuff" far better than I do.
  Without the info of this board and the truth about the WT which this board submits I don't think
  I would have handled my situation with this sociopath.

  Thank you all for the support. This includes you.

  Andy
• 

  garybuss

  When I read this I thought of Rutherford and Franz and now Adams.

  ---

  Profile of a Sociopath

  A number of mind-manipulating cult leaders may exhibit many of the behavioral characteristics of a sociopath--an outstanding ability to charm and seduce followers. Since they appear apparently normal, they are not easily recognizable as deviant or disturbed. Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis, it is important to be able to recognize the personality type in order to avoid further abuse. These traits also apply to a one-on-one cultic relationship.

  Glibness/Superficial Charm Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally. Manipulative and Conning They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims. Grandiose Sense of Self Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality Pathological Lying Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests. Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way. Shallow Emotions When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises. Incapacity for Love While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender. Need for Stimulation Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Callousness/Lack of Empathy Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the behavior as necessary for their (or the group's) own "good" and deny the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them. Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect. Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc. Irresponsibility/Unreliability Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers. Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc. Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health. Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam. Other Related Qualities: Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them Authoritarian Secretive Paranoid Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired Conventional appearance Goal of enslavement of their victim(s) Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love) Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim Incapable of real human attachment to another Unable to feel remorse or guilt Extreme narcissism and grandiose May state readily that their goal is to rule the world The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare. NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder."

  http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.htm
• 

  blondie

  If you think you are a sociopath, you aren't.
• 

  wednesday

  conf,

  lots of good stuff posted, take it to heart. sounds like u are just depressed, in fact u have said u were. when people are depressed, they often beat themselves up over stuff and can't think clearly. be kinder to yourself, i read all your posts, and u have never sounded like a sociopath to me, and apparently not to many others. we all can't be wrong.lady lee is a counselor, i worked a a psych Nurse for many years. I've talked to sociopaths, u just do not sound like one.

  weds
• 

  Frannie Banannie

  I doubt that the wt could do that to somebody, unless they were already bent that way. I think it starts w one or both parents. The mother is the root, imo. If she doesn't give physical affection and relate/communicate well w the infant, then the emotional foundation that enables a person to make attatchments/feel close to others is not there.

  Satanus, I beg to differ with you on this point about the mother being the root (cause) of socio/psychopathy. While I'm sure in some cases it CAN be the cause, this is not always the case.....many of them are BORN that way....I gave birth to two of them is how I know this....one pushed away from me from birth, even rejecting being breast-fed. The other bonded closely with me and is still clinging. But both are deviant sociopaths, and it breaks my heart.

  FB
• 

  Scully

  I have just finished reading a book called Under the Banner of Heaven which is a true story about how a man named Ron Lafferty, who subscribed to a Fundamentalist Mormon sect, felt that he was anointed by God to be the "one mighty and strong" to lead people to worship God. He also felt that he was anointed to be the one to remove people who got in his way, including his own sister-in-law Brenda Lafferty and his two year old niece, Erica Lafferty. He murdered these two people in cold blood, feeling no remorse and completely justified in doing what he did.
  
  
  
  DSM-IV calls "narcissistic personality disorder".
  
  -------
  
  
  A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy..., indicated by five (or more) of the following:
  
  1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance
  
  2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
  
  3. Believes that he or she is ?special? and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people...
  
  4. Requires excessive admiration
  
  5. Has a sense of entitlement...
  
  6. Selfishly takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
  
  7. Lacks empathy
  
  8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
  
  9. Shows arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behaviors or attitudes
  
  -------
  
  
  Like Blondie and others have said, sociopaths do not give themselves that label. They have no conscience, and no compunction about treating others badly in order to achieve their own goals. People are merely a means to an end and are entirely disposable. Sociopaths are, by definition, narcissistic. Narcissists are not necessarily sociopathic.
  
  
  If you have access to counselling, it would be a good idea to explore this further, to satisfy your own curiosity. It could be that you are experiencing a normal self-preservative response to depression or prior experience to being taken advantage of by others whom you wished to please, which is a PTSD-type experience.
  
  
  Love, Scully
• 

  fraidycat9

  DO NOT label yourself! Trust me on this one. Once you slap that label on yourself or allow others to, you'll feel impelled to start living up to the legend, if even subconciously. Treat whatever problem you have as an individual. DO NOT accept the blanket label! DO NOT!!!. I also make a good living. However, life's tough enough in itself and having "stuff" ain't all there is to life! Recognize your problem for whatever it is, (Lord knows I'm no analyst and don't have the credentials to be even the most junior of advisors) However, I am well versed in the "human experience" Get the appropriate help and move on. Move on.... My prayers go with you...really.

  Love,

  Fraidycat9