Do You Think WTS Reacts to Internet Info?

by Had Enough 10 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Had Enough

  Hello all:

  While I was an active JW, I remember so often that whenever we had a question that couldn't be answered, we would hear: "Just wait a little bit and you can be sure it will be brought out in an article soon." And sure enough, it happened just like that, time and time again.

  My topic title question has been rolling around in my head ever since hearing the talks and the drama dialogue as I posted earlier on the topic "DC Subtle Propaganda".

  The WTS obviously knows many of its members are lurking here and other sites, and their lies are getting more exposure than ever before, and I feel as though the org is keeping tabs on these sites.

  Many here have been telling their experiences and life stories revealing many skeletons from the WTS closet, openly criticizing the attitudes and harsh actions of the org.

  These are just a few of the phrases hammered at repeatedly as reminders at the DC this past weekend:

  "obeying Moses was obeying God"
  "speaking abusively against appointed is speaking against God"
  "they are imperfect men but they have a responsibility from God"
  "their imperfections is no excuse to oppose them"
  "we must recognize God's arrangement is by holy spirit and he directs through them"
  "didn't God know beforehand that Bro.Imperfect was imperfect?"
  "Korah developed complaining attitude - lead to pride, jealousy"

  ...and many more.

  And many here and elsewhere have expressed the stupidity of getting baptised too young....

  So, when referring to our baptism numbers, it was said the oldest was 82 and the youngest was 11, however the average age of the 82 baptised was 27, "which demonstrates the majority were of the age of understanding".

  And...

  at our last CA, the Bethel brother expressed the Canadian Bethel's concern over the missing approx. 19,000 pubs when you add the number baptised over the past 5 years to the number of pubs.

  These figures were posted on the net here and freeminds site posted the thread for a while.... but at this DC the brother gushed over the wonderful condition of Canada by saying we were 1 of the 3 countries with 100,000 baptised last year, and something like we were 27th in all the countries in some other category (sorry didn't get it down quick enough) and the March and April numbers of aux.pioneers was the 4th highest ever this year---rich blessings.

  I guess I'm just wondering if these few examples are just coincidences, or do you think the WTS reacts to the things exposed on the internet by trying to reinforce their hold on the r&f? Is it "thinking to much of ourselves" as was suggested in another thread, to think that they do react to "apostate revealing info"?

  ....just curious.

  Had Enough
• 

  Amazing

  Hi HadEnough: I think the Society has reacted to many things said or written by former JWs. I have had discussions with some who have written books on the topic of JWs, and they felt that some of the changes in the Watch Tower Society doctrines, policies, book revisions, and operations was due in part to what they had revealed. Likewise, I have no doubt that the Society has people assigned to keep tabs on the Internet, if not officially, at least unofficially, and report on what they find that is of concern.

  I am sure this is why the Society in its Nov. 99 KM warned JWs to stay off of the Internet. There have been talks given to JWs as well. They are clearly afraid of what is revealed and researched and published on the Internet, and they do not trust the rank and file JWs to be bale to handle the information. I also believe that what is published about them is so damning at times, they fear the JWs will leave when they learn the truth. - Amazing
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  Francois

  Yes, of course they monitor the net. Best way in the world to see what's coming up soon.

  And, like all organizations and individuals who have no confidence in themselves and their positions, they respond with ever more draconian and inflexible policies. Which will cause the best people who remain to leave. And in the end the entire body of the Dubs will consist in the dregs of its membership. Old folks too old to change. Bright young people who will bug out as soon as they get the chance. And dumbos, too damn dumb to realize what's going on right before their eyes. And can you imagine the quality of the people who will be left to serve as elders? They'll run off an ever increasing number of people who can't abide a dumb-ass with a little authority. I can see it now; can't you?

  This is the time of the end, alright, the time of the end of the WTB&TS, and it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of bastards. And I will be standing on the sidelines cheering in celebration of their demise for all the pain they've caused in my life. Fuck 'em, I say.

  Franc

  My $0.02
• 

  paradix

  Hi.
  Yes, I know positively they react to the Internet.
  In my (ex)congregation there are two elders with access to the Web. They used to talk that they enter in the Web just to know these damned apostates are saying.And they share with the C.O. what they read.After he maked the same advice of "Don't do this again" the C.O. builded part(the main, in fact) of his speech in the Circuit COnvention on the issues the two elders found in the Net.
  I personally heared this C.O. said that the WTS are confronting others
  organizations that have the solely goal of to destroy them.He said:
  They are very, very organized! And are making great damage to many
  brothers.!
  Beyond the victim hype, they are afraid.
  Free conscience is not a good new for the Slavertower.
  Love.
• 

  Had Enough

  Hello Amazing:
  I found it interesting that you know of some who have written books who feel some changes by the WTS was partially due to what they had revealed about the org.

  And you said:

  I also believe that what is published about them is so damning at times, they fear the JWs will leave when they learn the truth.

  I felt when I started reading things about the org that I'd be able to pick out the lies and mistakes but what I read and have continued to read cannot be refuted by the org....to many details have been backed up and proven that the real truth cannot be denied. I don't see a lot of raving lunatics as the WTS has portrayed apostates to be. I see sound reasoning, logic, wisdom, sensible thinking and deep feelings of distain for the injustices carried on for too long.

  I keep hearing things being said from the platform at assemblies that just sound too much like a justification for some statement or action that has been revealed and picked apart by ones here and on other sites. I just couldn't help but feel it was too much of a coincidence.

  Yes Francoise: I see your point about the best leaving the org. and the old die-hards being left with the dregs. I heard again this past weekend someone lamenting that their cong. was suffering from a lack of elders....and I look at what's in line, or trying to be in line, to be made elders and it is a sad sight to see. Sure some congs. are probably still flourishing and would quickly point that out to us, but for how long.

  Even staunch die-hards have been heard to say some of the talks were harsh and demanding at this past DA.

  Hello paradix:

  Welcome to our board and thank you for relating your personal observations from experience. That's exactly what I pictured as happening not just there but all over. I do believe they recognize the damage being done by the exposure of the true facts not the cute, nice little stories the org would have us believe.

  I am enjoying your comments here and on other threads.

  Had Enough
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  Flip

  This is the time of the end, alright, the time of the end of the WTB&TS, and it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of bastards. And I will be standing on the sidelines cheering in celebration of their demise for all the pain they've caused in my life. Fuck 'em, I say.

  Sadly to say Francoise, although I’ll echo most of your sentiments, I’m of a different opinion in so far as how and why the WTBTS utilizes less than flattering information found on the internet, or any other media for that matter.

  If I were pulling the strings at Paterson, I’d be pro-actively using the corporate critique found on the internet as an informational barometer to gauge just how much to tweak current dogma or policys that are a little over the top. Then make it more palatable to the those they’re trying to influence which should be a simple matter, after all the rank & file are Jehovah’s Witnesses, not MENSA and the “worldly” media is, in most cases, much to fragmented not to be manipulated.

  Sure you may lose a few of the more thoughtful and empathic rank & file along the way, but it’s the dysfunctional steadfast Jehovah’s Witness who are the real bread and butter of the WTBTS. Otherwise who else, in the long term, would buy into their drivel and try to recruit their own family members and others?
  
  The upper echelon executives are not affected the same way because they’re motivated differently. They’re going to stay regardless because that’s where the power and security is. And don’t think negative information surprises them, the Internet is not telling them anything they don’t already realize about their corporation, it’s the rank & file who need to get a clue.

  As for losing quality Elders, there are only two, over riding principles Elders need to understand.
  
  · First, if you want to be a Jehovah’s Witness and gain “Everlasting Life”, you need to buy (donate) WTBTS products.
  · Second, motivate others to buy (donate) WTBTS products through FUD.
  
  Any WTBTS adapted Multi Level Marketing techniques learned by Elders will suffice.
  
  Finally, and until such time as G7 governments decide to review how the heck this organization deserved tax-free status in the first place, if the WTBTS combines the captive ‘cash flow’ audience made up of actively publication purchasing (donation) Jehovah’s Witnesses along with compounding real estate and investment returns, those guys from Brooklyn will be laughing all the way to the bank, for a long, long.. long… long time.
  
  Flip
• 

  ozziepost

  G'day Had_Enough,

  Do I Think WTS Reacts to Internet Info? Yes, yes, yes, yes. etc.!

  Take a look through last year's Watchtower articles. It seemed that each issue contained at least one reaction to what had been recently discussed on H20.

  And how would they know what the 'opposers' were claiming if they hadn't had someone monitor these sites?

  Makes you feel kinda special, don't it?

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "Truth persuades by teaching, but does not teach by persuading."
  TERTULLIAN, Adversus Valentinianos
• 

  joelbear

  If anything, this board supports their position about what life is like outside the organization.
• 

  Moxy

  Ill still make the unpopular call and answer with a qualified 'no'

  i dont believe that the GB or teaching committee is browsing around for things to reply to. i dont believe that they have some kind of covert internet ops team that monitors the jw forums either. indirectly, news of what is happening out here gets back to them, sure. like paradix noted, an elder comes across something, thinking he can help by being aware, he mentions it to a CO and up the line it goes. an elder gets an earful from some dissident when they leave about what they learned on the internet. he passes on the substance of the dissident's remarks (without the details) to the CO and on up the line. stuff is printed that is publicly available or comes out in conversations between the PR dept and the media and that gets sent on.

  the teaching committee therefore has enough information about opposers arguments to respond generally, and really, that's all i see evidence of. unless they decide legal action is warranted (ie the posting of the Pay Attention book) i dont think people higher up are inclined to actually look into the source of these opposing sentiments, to get more than a general idea of what's going on out here.

  its just like letters sent in to the WT with questions. the GB doesnt handle any of these directly according to Ray Franz. they may get wind of them in general and respond accordingly but it seems more like a knee-jerk response than a 'hang on. they said WHAT? we have to look at this. this is serious.' type of response. if they are only indirectly taking the pulse of attitude from the faithful, then why would they give anything more to those that have abandoned their faith.

  mox
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  Maximus

  Moxy's on target. Another point is that the things we say openly here about inconsistencies and doctrinal matters are the very concerns many pubs--and traveling men--are whispering about as well. This does filter up the line. When such considerable discontent is noted, it's easy to blame it on that infernal Internet and those apostates. Always got to be an Enemy out there. The high control reaction is predictable.

  While the GB or others have no need to browse around the Internet to find out what's going on, there is certain monitoring ... and telephone calls are now recorded at Bethel.

  I'm waiting for somone to develop the relationship between the old Service committee, Teaching, the new Branch committee, and the like. Some significant changes ...