"Those days will be cut short " - question

by Sirona 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    Excellent points. They need to re-work the whole "holy ones" "chosen ones" explanation.

    Is it just those who have a heavenly calling. Or are all Christians "holy ones" destined for heaven.

    The Bible's use of the term "chosen" and "holy ones" is very ambiguous.

    The reference to the "holy ones" in direct relatoin to the great tribulation is not ambiguous when you specifically consider Daniel 12. In that the "holy ones" are spoken of being "dashed to pieces" during this great tribulation.

    Now why would God cause most of his own "holy ones" to be dashed to pieces in this great tribulation, clearly the FOCUS of the great tribulatoin? No. Instead the "holy ones" in this case are the Jews, the natural Jews. They are the ones that are the target of this final "great tribulation" against them because God prophesied this would happen to him if he left his covenant, which is being scattered throughout the nations and a sword following after them.

    So this is a final punishment of the Jews to fulfill this prophecy, which makes sense, even though "spiritual Israel" becomes symbolically part of this attack. That is, the Nazis who carry out this "desolatoin" of the holy ones, the Jews, also focuses on "spiritual Israel" who are Jehovah's witnesses. Note that the Nazis specifically singled out the witnesses. They were assigned the specific prison badge of the "purple triangle"; the Jews were assigned the well-known yellow star.

    I know this is a bit complex, but the context of "unless the days were cut short no flesh would be saved" in and of itself suggests that the majority would be lost and only a remnant remain. This is precisely what happened to the Jews where two thirds of the Jews were exterminated.

    Matthew distinguishes "spiritual Israel" and fleshly Israel by the designation of the "greater number" versus the "lesser number." Thus as part of the signs leading up to the Holocaust it mentions the "love of the greater number would cool off." What greater number? If there is a greater number then there must be a counterpart lesser number. The greater number are the natural Jews, the lesser number are spiritual Israel, a reference to anointed ones associated with Jehovah's witnesses. Thus the "love of the greater number cooling off" means the a cooling off of the affection for the Jewish people in the form of increased anti-Semitism for this period leading up to the Holocaust a very well-documented fact of fulfillment for this period.

    But you know, I get the feeling that this is simply not thw "final solution" to this passage that the folks here are looking for, even though it's the correct explanation.

    Don't forget, the "great tribulation" is completely over before the Messiah arrives...."immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..." (Matthew 24). Hitler's success in WWII was cut short by two factors primarily, the US entering the war but also an extremely severe winter in Russia....hmmmmm.

    JC

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Its years since I was in the dubs. I'm getting confused here: The Great Tribulation isn't armageddon?

    Could someone dumb this down for me? I did they say prior to blondie's 2000 watchtower that the great crowd were included in the "holy ones"?

    Thanks

    Sirona

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl
    Has this been changed? Is there "new light"?

    I think the short answer to your original question is No.

    When I was a JW, the great tribulation came immediately before Armeggedon. The nations would turn on false religion, leading to global persecution of JWs (great tribulation), which would trigger Armggeddon.

    Of course, I have been out for ten years, so it could mean anything now.

    I thought the Watchtower quote in Blondie's post was very interesting. The number of Memorial partakers has stayed fairly constant for some years now. The quote was to the effect that "the true annointed" numbers are falling. In other words - some of you partakers are fakes.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Thanks Fe.

    Perhaps the only way they can change it is to refer to the great crowd as holy ones...

    Sirona

  • blondie
    blondie

    The "holy ones" has always referred to the anointed, 144,000, those going to heaven per the WTS.

    Now may that change.....

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I should have added that the past tense of the expression , "were cut short" in Matt is disguised by the use of "would" later in the verse. The word translated "would" carries no tense and simply means "conditional upon." By reading Mark's version (which is never quoted by the WT) we can see clearly that the statement is being made AFTER the period of tribulation being described. Further there is no definite article "the" before the expression "great suffering (or tribulation)" which again shows that in context the expression is not referring to some 'era' or 'period' distinct and subsequent to the "last days" but rather the hardships and oppression being discussed in surrounding verses.

    Mark 13:20 reads: 20 "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no * life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

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