what does it matter how we live?

candidlynuts

i was reading ecclesiastes 1 -3 today(excerpt is from chapter 2)..... and i'm not a bible scholar and dont claim any wisdom... but these scriptures seem to just say you live and you die regardless of who or what you do in life.

its all vanity...... is this the true wisdom of the bible? that we exsist not by or for any reason.. we just exsist then we die..... end of story?

12 Then I turned myself to consider wisdom and madness and folly;
For what can the man do who succeeds the king?--
Only what he has already done.
13 Then I saw that wisdom excels folly
As light excels darkness.
14 The wise man's eyes are in his head,
But the fool walks in darkness.
Yet I myself perceived
That the same event happens to them all.

15 So I said in my heart,
"As it happens to the fool,
It also happens to me,
And why was I then more wise?"
Then I said in my heart,
"This also is vanity."
16 For there is no more remembrance of the wise than of the fool forever,
Since all that now is will be forgotten in the days to come.
And how does a wise man die?
As the fool!

17 Therefore I hated life because the work that was done under the sun was distressing to me, for all is vanity and grasping for the wind.
18 Then I hated all my labor in which I had toiled under the sun, because I must leave it to the man who will come after me. 19 And who knows whether he will be wise or a fool? Yet he will rule over all my labor in which I toiled and in which I have shown myself wise under the sun. This also is vanity. 20 Therefore I turned my heart and despaired of all the labor in which I had toiled under the sun. 21 For there is a man whose labor is with wisdom, knowledge, and skill; yet he must leave his heritage to a man who has not labored for it. This also is vanity and a great evil. 22 For what has man for all his labor, and for the striving of his heart with which he has toiled under the sun? 23 For all his days are sorrowful, and his work burdensome; even in the night his heart takes no rest. This also is vanity.
24 Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God.

RandomTask

It matters to others, in that when we think about our society, and the impacts that we have on other people then our choices affect how others live.

Solomon was a selfish, spoiled person, and his writings reflect his self centered viewpoint.

gitasatsangha

If you believe you are soley an individual, as Solomon seems to have, then life doesn't have much point. If you realize you are connected to every other living thing that has every been or ever will be, then this "you-ness" can be a wonderful facet on a permeating reality which is difficult even to imagine. We don't much think anymore about what will affect those around us, or those who are to come, and in the witnesses it was much moreso as we thought the universe hinged on a battle coming just around the corner that would leave all things new. The real trick is to be happy. If you alive, the thing is to find and understand your sufferings, so they can be eradicated. One thing solomon did get right is that there is nothing new under the sun. What he didn't understand is that there is nothing old under the sun either, there's just the present moment to be mindfull in.

RandomTask

moment of zen

Satanus

It does matter how we live. If we respect the properties of others, are industrious, basically obey civil laws, cooperate, are trustworthy; and if people in general in a city, province/state, country are of this nature, then there will be order, prosperity, peace, enjoyment of life. You will know that when you come home from work, that your stuff will still be there, your retirement savings will keep their value, you can feel secure in your home, etc. Most western countries are something like this.

Now, compare this to most countries in, say africa. Backstabbing, power hunger, living for the moment/for a moment of pleasure, finding pleasure in degrading, at times literally eating others are the way of life, the nature of a proportion of the people in countries like burundi, congo, zimbabwe, south africa, uganda. These are countries that you would not want to live in, even if you are black.

So, yes, it does matter how we live. As for what you were reading, throw it out w yesterday's newspaper. Sure there is some good in it. But, there is also some good in each days newspaper. Our civil code was established by men, not some warrior semitic tribal genocidal god.

S

jgnat

Solomon answers his own question in chapter 3:

12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil-this is the gift of God. (NIV)

Jehovah's Witnesses usually skip this part.

candidlynuts

WHAT? (insert sarcasm here) wheres the part about getting 10 hours of service in? of studying with your kids ONE hour a month ( cuz you cant count any more time than that. your own kids arent worth it i suppose) wheres the requirement for FIVE meetings a week? the Personal reading ? read the text daily? read the magazines? study them in depth? mediate?

sounds to easy..whats the catch?

I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil-this is the gift of God.

boa

candidly...I concur with you totally....It was this book, which is my favourite from da bible actually, that, while reading at bethel, really was the beginning of the end of my sick love affair with the wts, and in the end, with gawd...

If we are here by chance or an impersonal gawd, then all else is moot....and just a 'nice to do' for other people...its all about continuation of the species and if that fails, then who cares?????? The universe sure as hell doesn't! Anything else is pure emotionalism which is unreliable at best and plain ol' foolhardy at worst.

I relish this belief for its rawness, realism, and feel that ol' king Sol knew it as well...good on 'im for showing it to me...the horny ol' bastard!

boa...

TheOldHippie

Satanus, when you wrote that "Now, compare this to most countries in, say africa. Backstabbing, power hunger, living for the moment/for a moment of pleasure, finding pleasure in degrading, at times literally eating others are the way of life, the nature of a proportion of the people in countries like burundi, congo, zimbabwe, south africa, uganda. These are countries that you would not want to live in, even if you are black."

I sincerely hope that was not meant as racist as it seems to be ................ People in Africa do not find pleasure in degrading any more than does a citizen of the more shady parts of New York, but because of Western/US colonialism and resulting mal-government, the ways of life have been destoyed to such an extent that all natural restrictions have been removed.

Painting a picture of the poor masses of Burundi and Uganda like the one you do, is a shame and disgrace.

logical

Of course it matters how we live. But unfortunately a lot of people dont care about others which is pretty much what that passage says. Someone who does nothing but good all their lives making people happy and helping people gets the exact same end as a pedophile or suicide bomber. Whats the point? This really gets to me. Surely this isnt all there is to it, there has to be something that makes all the suffering worth while.

what does it matter how we live?

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