by sleepy 160 Replies latest watchtower scandals
I certainly hope this thread doesn't become all about USA / Europe bashing.
Glad you enjoyed your visit & You can come visit us anytime LT!
Gypsy:
The thread started out with the following comments:
Just wondering what exactly Americans (U.S.A) are taught about their country in school .Do you really salute a flag, do you swear allegiance to the country. Are you taught that you fought for freedom, and that America is THE land of the free, etc etc? Do you actually believe what you are taught?
Brits generally have issues with folks displaying overt lack of modesty, which the American "can do" attitude is sometimes interpreted as. The media here has a certain slant towards showing American foriegn policy as "swaggering", albeit joining the propaganda machine to elicit support for the cause.
I have to confess that I, too, am interested in seeing the story from the other side of the coin. I'm kinda skeptical of the media, especially after seeing the way the last two wars involving Iraq were hyped up prior to attack. Sleepy often has an agressive questioning style, bordering on appearing to be on the wind-up, but I think he's genuine...
.. you are, aren't you, Sleepy???
LOL
Hmmmmm
Well we did fight to be Free form the Brits. Maybe you should ask the French.........
I Salute the flag because im in the MIlitary. Most Americans put their right hand over their heart when the National Anthem is played (sports events mainly). Its not mandatory. At the very least people take their hats off (well im not so sure about texas )
We are the land of the free. I dont see any slaves around here.
We dont swear allegiance to the country. The pledge of allegiance states "I pledge allegiance to the flag...." And the only ones who even say it are little kids in grades 1-6. On top of that you dont have to say it. I havnt said the pledge in years. I have sworn to protect my country against enemies both foriegn and domestic- but only because I am in the Military.
Well lets see how that gets picked apart and turned into - Americans Suck!
"If you really think these are cultures than you really havent had much experience of the rest of the world." Sleepy - I disagree on this one. Culture is noticably different in various parts of the US even among whites, not taking into account other races. The Southern states differ as you would expect in the use of "slang terminology" as well as architecture and cuisine from Northern states. America is broadly divided into The Eastern Coastal States - The Northern States - The North-Eastern States - The Mid-Western States or Heartland - The Southern States The South-Western States and The Western Coastal States. I'm sure Britain is much the same. As is most countries. Southern Blacks are noticably different from Northern Black culture. One of the interesting things is you can visit little towns or sections of cities in my state which are predominately German or Italian or Irish or Polish or Spanish or African, Jewish, Amish, Korean, Arab, Lebenese, Caucasion, Puerto Rican. I grew up in a city which proclaimed itself "The International City" We still have an International festival every summer with a couple dozen nationalities represented in a city of just 40,000. Culture is very much alive and what makes america really enjoyable. I enjoy the ethnic cuisine and traditional music and dress. All the beautiful young women in traditional dress performing dance and song. When I grew up my best friend's family was Lebenese/American. In fact in our neighborhood a typical football game would have English, Irish, Black, Lebenese, Spanish, Italian, Polish and Slovak kids :)
By the way the British were never slaves to royalty. Neither were ameican settlers slaves to the British.Although American settlers did have their own slaves... Brits however did attempt a cultural cleansing or genocide of the Irish... http://www.kavanaghfamily.com/articles/2003/20030618jfc.htm
This sort of dosn't read right...
"The British are taught that the United Kingdom is the greatest nation on earth. The Richest. The land of the Free and the home of the Brave. We are taught that we are the most generous and charitable nation. That anyone man or woman can become Prime Minister. That anyone can become wealthy. That we have freedom of speech and worship without fear of retribution. The most beautiful and diverse melting pot of ethnicity. The Crown says give us your poor and wretched."
You'd have to use different words to describe the merits of the UK.
This dosn't sit right either:
"America is the only country that can be the greatest and richest and most free. Your country can't be the greatest, richest or most free becuase we're America and you're not. It wouldn't matter if your country had more greatness or more riches or greater freedom - we're America so therefore we're richer and greater and freer than you because we're America and you're not. Up yours."
I don't think that's what Americans mean, even though that's what they say. 'Greatest', 'richest', 'most free' are exclusive words, but meant in a non-exlusive way ... I think ... am I wrong?
If I were to say my country were the richest, greatest or the most free (or whatever superlatives I wanted to use), would Americans raise up in arms to say I'm wrong because my country isn't America? I doubt it, they'd probably say 'Great, can we come visit?'. (Or would they send a missle to prove the point?)
Max
"If you really think these are cultures than you really havent had much experience of the rest of the world."
Any country has cultural difference within it's boundaries and the US is more internally diverse than most others due to the size of it's population and the fact of various indigenous peoples still being present.
But I don't think it's accurate to compare the cultural experience of moving between regions of North America with moving between regions of Asia or Europe. The North American cultural range is more narrow than on all other continents except Australia and Antarctica. There's nothing wrong with that, and it has real advantages. The only point is that without exploring other places a narrow mindset is likley to develop.
IMO, the more similar people are the more obvious their differences.
I don't think it's a bashing, I don't take it personal, I certainly have my mis-givings about political motives in my country, but socialy I like many many things about it. The Grassroots people. More of a cultural discussion and history. I have always wanted to visit England and Ireland as they are my heritage, but due to the war, I won't travel due to fear of retaliation based on the somewhat dubious actions of our administration. When I watch them on TV, I get a sense of grandiose swagger and I live here. I think they could benefit from cultural sensitivity training.
Politicians have to be the most disgusting, dispicable genre of people in the world. They are drawn to power and money and the perks. They are prisoners of excess. Drug addicts of class status. Excuse my ranting. I'm sure I'm equally disgusting to them. The only difference is I'm right.
This is an example of profound revelance concerning the unacceptable attitude that results from Political Elitism. Now I must go, some of you may say thank goodness :) I like ya'll anyway.
Just wondering what exactly Americans (U.S.A) are taught about their country in school .Do you really salute a flag, do you swear allegiance to the country. Are you taught that you fought for freedom, and that America is THE land of the free, etc etc? Do you actually believe what you are taught.
Well I am just one American so I can't speak for everyone....seems kind of presumptuous to even try, wouldn't you say? It's been awhile since I have been in school but I'll cast my mind back and see....
Yes I did salute the flag and say the allegiance. I didn't become a JW until I was 12 and most grades to about 5th I believe salute the flag. I was also in school on a military base as my father was in the airforce and I spend most life from birth to 12 when my dad retired living on bases, ergo I would probaby be more likely to be in a school where this was advocated. I wasn't brainwashed from the experience obviously as I later became a JW, swearing my allegiance to a theocracy. Now I keep my allegiance in reserve.
All I recall being taught regarding American History was about Pilgrims and Paul Revere....sorry I didn't pay a lot of attention in school. My basic understanding is that America is considered "home of the free" because so many people fled here to escape oppression in their own countries...apparently some continue to do so... The name just stuck I suppose...
Did I actually believe what I was taught? lol do you believe what you were taught in school? I'm sure up to a point I did...but as you can see it didn't make that big of an impact on me.
I'm sorry it bothers you so much that some Americans love their country. Might want to spend some time pondering why that is though...just a thought
PS I'm sure the serfs in Merry Ole England will feel comforted to know they weren't considered slaves..sure that took the sting off having a hand chopped off for poaching or not being allowed to marry whom they wanted
Here?s my slant on this. I see Jehovah?s witnesses like this, 1.Indoctrineate their children newcomers swear allegiance to an organisation. 2.They proclaim they are the greatest people on earth. The freest the most favoured of God, the richest (spiritually) and that people that haven?t got what they seen as lower. 3.If people question this, they are disloyal, apostate. I see America like this. 1.Incotriate their children, swear allegiance if they move there. 2.Proclaim they are greatest people on earth. The freest (even the most favoured of god and yes I?ve heard presidents bush say this) the richest. This in a subtle way will cause others to be seen as lower. 3.if they question this they are unpatriotic. Other western nations do not teach themselves these things to such a degree. Last time was Germany and we know what happened there. Now when you build a false belief system up this is dangerous us, and can cause you to act in an unjustified manor. It may be the case that some people can see through exaggerations or distortion, but many just do not take the time to think about it. They can be caught up in a belief system that is false and will act accordingly. This may cause them to support unjustified actions against other nations. This is the danger, in indoctrinating people that a certain country is best, you will give people a false self-belief, this can lead to endangerment of other peoples liberties.
