Daniel Made Simple! (page 4)

Thanks for your excellent research. Like JWdaughter, I think some of these older technical threads are just amazing. I am shocked at my years of ignorance regarding the authorship, environment and motives of bible writers. At least I am figuring it out now.

Zarco

nicolaou

Great opening posts Leo! Marking this for future reference.

Sapphy

Best comments on Daniel I've read.

Confusedandangry

I know this post is 14 years old, but I'm bumping it for newbies like me. My spouse is so sure that these prophecies are now happening thanks to the latest convention. Thanks Leolaia!

Phizzy

Thanks for reviving this great Thread. Leolaia was our resident Scholar of High Repute for a long time. All of her input on here is pure Gold !

It was her posts that spurred me to action with regard to my scant knowledge of Scholarly terms that she used, and virtually no knowledge of the works of Scholars in the field of the O.T and ancient near Eastern Texts. Prof. Mark Smith, who Leo quotes from time to time has some great Tomes that are worth a read.

It all comes down to the fact that all Bible writers wrote for the people of their own time, any seeming "prophecy" is only their own wishful thinking. Many of the "prophecies" in Daniel were written after the event of course.

Not one Bible " prophecy" ( prediction) has come true in the terms it was written in, not one.

peacefulpete

Resurrection of a fine thread.

Jeffro

Always first-class material from Leolaia!

For Daniel made more simple, see also Daniel’s dreams and visions.

Vanderhoven7

Ralf Woodrow has some great articles on Matthew 24 and Daniel as well. Here is part of what he wrote regarding the abomination of desolation.

"THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION — FUTURE OR FULFILLED?

Concerning our Lord’s statement about the destruction of the temple, the disciples asked: “WHEN shall these things be? and WHAT SIGN will there be when these things shall come to pass?” (Luke 21:7). As we have seen, Jesus mentioned things of a general nature that would come to pass first. Now he gives THE sign — a specific sign that would let them know that Jerusalem was about to be destroyed. He said that they would see “the abomination of desolation” and when they saw this, they were to quickly flee, for the desolation of the city would be nigh.

Matthew: “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) then let them that be in Judaea flee into the mountains” (24:15,16).

Mark: “When ye shall see the abomination of desolations spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains” (13:14).

Luke: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains . . . Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles” (21:20,21,24).

Now, step by step, let us notice what we are told in these parallel accounts:

1. We notice where Matthew and Mark record: ‘When ye shall see the abomination of DESOLATION . . . then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains”, Luke, in speaking of exactly the same thing, says: “When ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the DESOLATION thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains.” We see, then, that it was JERUSALEM that would become a DESOLATION.

We notice also that this “desolation” was that “which was spoken by Daniel the prophet.” Turning to Daniel 9, we find the passage in which Daniel spoke of this destruction: “And the people of the prince that shall come shall DESTROY the city and the sanctuary” (Dan. 9:26).

Therefore, by comparing the parallel accounts, by the fact that Jesus was answering questions about the overthrow of Jerusalem, and by our Lord’s reference to the prophecy of Daniel, it is evident that what was to become a “desolation” was JERUSALEM. There is no room for any misunderstanding here.

2. Looking again at the parallel accounts, we see that what Matthew and Mark refer to as the “abomination” that would make Jerusalem desolate, Luke (using plain language) shows that such would be armies — Gentile armies: “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles” (Lk. 21:20-24).

The word “abomination” is a word that refers to anything that is especially loathsome or detestable. Certainly this fits the feelings the inhabitants of Jerusalem would have toward an idol-worshipping Gentile army advancing to destroy their city! In fact, an army (coming to destroy) is an abomination to any people or nation. And, as history has repeatedly recorded, the work of armies so often results in desolation — destruction!

3. Matthew’s account says that the abomination (Gentile army) would “stand in the holy place” and adds the words: “Whoso readeth, let him understand.” Mark’s account, because it too is given in somewhat veiled language, includes the words: “Let him that readeth understand.” BUT, looking at Luke’s account of the same passage which is given in plain language, we read: ‘When ye see JERUSALEM compassed with armies . . .“ And because he gives the explanation, he does not include the phrase: “Let him that readeth understand.”

By letting the Bible be its own interpreter, then, we see that the term “holy place” (Mt. 24:15), is a reference to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is commonly referred to as the holy city (Mt. 27:53; Dan. 9:16; etc.). According to the prophecy, Gentile armies were to compass it and finally bring it to desolation.

The word translated “place” in the expression “holy place” in Matthew’s account is topos (see any Greek dictionary or Bible Concordance such as Strong’s, Young’s, etc.). The word topos means simply a locality. Such words as topical and topography are derived from it. It is used in such scriptural expressions as “a desert place”, “dry places”, etc. (It is not the same term as that which is used in describing the holy of holies of the temple.)

What is called the holy place is explained by Luke as the area that would be occupied by armies surrounding Jerusalem. The Matthew Henry Commentary has well put it: “Jerusalem was the holy city, Canaan the holy land, the Mt. Moriah, which lay about Jerusalem, for its nearness to the temple was, they thought, in a particular manner holy ground; on the country lying round about Jerusalem the Roman army was encamped, that was the abomination that made desolate.”1

These pagan armies were to “compass” the city (Luke); they would take a “stand” there (Matthew) — the word stand indicating rebellion or hostility. Examples of the word used in this way may be seen in the following:

“A king of fierce countenance.., shall stand up” (Dan. 8:23,25). “A mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion . . . and when he shall stand up . . .” (11:3,4). Another will “stand up in his estate, and shall come with an army” (verse 7). “Then shall stand up . . . a raiser of taxes . . . and in his estate shall stand up a vile person” (verses 20,21). A king “shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand . . .” (verse 25). Concerning persecution against the cause of Christ, we read in Acts 4:26: “The kings of the earth stood up and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord . . .”

We cite these references to show how the word “stand” is used of those who assume a place of leadership or authority to rebel or fight. And in the same sense, the “abomination” — the pagan armies — were to take a stand against Jerusalem and compass it about to destroy it!

Taking then the sum of what Jesus said in this connection, we understand that Jerusalem was to become a desolation; one stone would not be left upon another. Jesus also revealed that this destruction would be caused by “armies.” Jerusalem would be “trodden down of Gentiles”, such idol-worshipping Gentile armies quite correctly being referred to as an “abomination.” Any way we look at it, according to the words of Christ, Jerusalem was marked for destruction by the hands of her enemies.

A few days after Jesus had mentioned these things, however, he commissioned his disciples to wait in this very city — to be endued with power from on high. He explained that they would receive power after that the Holy Spirit had come upon them and they would be witnesses unto him throughout the world, including Jerusalem, where their work would begin (Acts 1:8; Lk. 24:49).

But if the city was to be destroyed, what about our Lord’s disciples that would be there as a witness to that city? Were they to perish with the others — with those who had rejected Christ and cried, “Crucify him, crucify him”? Or would there be a way of escape? According to the scriptures, their witness in that city was to continue up to a certain point — only until they saw a certain sign — and then they were to FLEE and escape the horrid destruction destined for that city and people!

As is well known, the city of Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed by Roman armies in 70 A.D. But before this happened, in obedience to the warning Jesus had given, every Christian fled and thus escaped the awful wrath that befell that city and country! The account of what happened is truly amazing!

In 65 A.D., Florus, the worse of Caesar’s procurators, assumed control of Judea. He did things which brought the Jews to a place of violent rebellion — a rebellion too great for him to handle. Consequently, another man, Cestius Gallus, took over. Marching his armies into Palestine, a number of towns were subdued and he advanced toward Jerusalem. After camping for three days near the city, he began the assault.2

Seeing Jerusalem compassed with Gentile armies, the disciples now knew its desolation was nigh — according to the words of Christ. They also knew this was the sign to flee! But HOW could they flee when the city was surrounded? This had not been explained in the prophecy. But let us see what happened.

Cestius and his armies were being very successful in their battle against Jerusalem. So much so, in fact, that the Jews were ready to give up and shortly would have opened their gates in surrender — thus saving the city and temple. But prophecy had it that these things would be destroyed! When Cestius would have almost taken the city, suddenly — as Josephus says, “without any reason in the world” — he withdrew his troops and departed! This filled the Jews with courage and they pursued the retreating army, inflicting on it a major disaster.3

With the retreat of the armies that compassed Jerusalem, there was a brief interval before the armies would return and destroy the city. And in this brief interval, there was time for the Christians to flee. What happened is well summed up in the words of Thomas Newton:

We learn from ecclesiastical histories, that at this juncture all who believed in Christ departed Jerusalem, and removed to Pella and other places beyond the river Jordan; so that they all marvelously escaped the general shipwreck of their countrymen; and we do not read anywhere that so much as one of them perished in the destruction of Jerusalem.4

Adam Clarke wrote: “it is very remarkable that not a single Christian perished in the destruction of Jerusalem though there were many there when Cestius Gallus invested the city.”5 Truly it was a marvelous escape! What confirmation of our Lord’s words! What an amazing fulfillment of prophecy!

The Christians having now made their escape, the desolation of Jerusalem was nigh. After Cestius Gallus had retreated with his troops, Nero then ordered Vespasian to take over. He, in turn, ordered his son, Titus, to go to Alexandria and bring the 5th and 10th legions from Egypt — to subdue Judea. But a crisis developed in Rome causing Vespasian to return there (where in 70 A. D. he was hailed as the new Emperor) and the job of capturing Jerusalem was left in the hands of Titus and his armies.6

We see, then, that in the place where Matthew and Mark use the somewhat veiled expression “abomination of desolation”, Luke (using plain language) shows that such was to be Gentile armies compassing Jerusalem to bring it to desolation. All three of the gospel accounts before mentioning this sign begin with the words: “When ye see . . .” and follow this with the words: “Then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains”, etc. There can be no mistake that these are parallel accounts. By simply letting the Bible explain itself, we have seen that the “desolation” was to be the destruction of Jerusalem (city and temple); the “abomination of desolation” referred to heathen armies that would bring about the desolation; and when these armies would be seen compassing Jerusalem, the disciples were to flee...."

Daniel Made Simple!

JWdaughter

zarco