To WHOM did Ananias lie?

Tyre

Acts Chapter 5 speaks for itself. It is quite obvious that, not only did Peter regard the Holy Spirit as personal, but as GOD HIMSELF present with His people. As you read the NWT`s version, ask yourself the following questions:

* How can you lie to an impersonal force?

* Why does Peter say that Ananias "played false" ("lied" in the Diaglott) to GOD?

* Who is the "spirit of Jehovah" that Peter speaks of?

* In context, isn`t the "spirit of Jehovah" the same as the Holy Spirit, Who is called GOD in Acts 5?

However, a certain man , Ananias by name, together with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession and secretly held back some of the price, his wife also knowing about it, and he brought just a part and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said: "Ananias, why has Satan emboldened you to play false TO THE HOLY SPIRIT and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control?

Why was it you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, NOT TO MEN, BUT TO GOD."

On hearing these words Ananias fell down and expired. And great fear came over all those hearing of it................................................................................"Why was it agreed upon between you [two] to make a test of THE SPIRIT OF JEHOVAH? Look! The.............................................................................. Acts 5:1-11(NWT)

If the Holy Spirit--the Spirit of Jehovah--is a divine Person and we don`t know it, we are robbing a divine Being of the love and adoration which are His due. If we know in our hearts that God`s infallible Word calls the Holy Spirit God, but we continue to reject that, are we blaspheming against the Holy Spirit??

Markfromcali

Are you aware that this entire line of reasoning is thought dependent? In other words, not a matter of direct experience where you can actually invite the reader to examine for himself, as there are some assumptions to be made. No offense, as I don't know if you're a JW or not, but the whole question format makes the message looks like a WTS publication.

Here's a simple and straightforward question: Do you think God exists independent of your beliefs and thoughts about God? If so why don't you just drop the ideas and relate directly? Or do you hold those beliefs more dearly than God, or perhaps cannot make the distinction between the ideas and the reality?

Tyre

Are you aware that this entire line of reasoning is thought dependent? In other words, not a matter of direct experience where you can actually invite the reader to examine for himself, as there are some assumptions to be made. No offense, as I don't know if you're a JW or not, but the whole question format makes the message looks like a WTS publication.

Mark, I am not a JW or ex-JW. I just want to know what opinion from JW view of ACT 5, below are my questions :

* How can you lie to an impersonal force?

* Why does Peter say that Ananias "played false" ("lied" in the Diaglott) to GOD?

* Who is the "spirit of Jehovah" that Peter speaks of?

* In context, isn`t the "spirit of Jehovah" the same as the Holy Spirit, Who is called GOD in Acts 5?

Here's a simple and straightforward question: Do you think God exists independent of your beliefs and thoughts about God? If so why don't you just drop the ideas and relate directly? Or do you hold those beliefs more dearly than God, or perhaps cannot make the distinction between the ideas and the reality?

Mark, I just wants to know bible more deeply expecially about HS. that's why the subject is "To WHOM did Ananias lie?

LittleToe

Tyre:
Since the bible states that the Holy Spirit is the teacher, who does the Holy Spirit tell you it's speaking about?

Mark:
I suspect that the answer to your question is "a cocktail"

Tyre

Thanks LittleToe,

btw to many questions regarding HS, expecially in ACT 5,

if HS is a teacher then must be have inteligence involved here, if have inteligence then HS must be a person which is hv ability to teach us.

so ....since HS have inteligence and have ability to teach us, not just impersonal active force. Is HS a person ?

Tyre

Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.

Mat 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this world or in the world to come.

in verses above too.

just like Ananias in ACT 5, also in Matthew 12: 31-32 ..............will not be forgiven in this world or in the world to come

* How can you lie to an impersonal force?

Markfromcali

Why must an intelligence be a personality? Intelligence is intelligence, you might say it "has" personality, or if it is more intelligent than what we might call personal intelligence (human mind) then it is intelligent enough to function as a personality, but then to say it IS a person would be limiting it. In the same way if you insist on these leading questions you are limiting yourself to these ideas and what it points to, unless you really just want to lead someone to your views.

A personal view might seem more intimate and close to your heart, but not only is it personal in nature, it is just your personal view. You might have a friend, but friend is just your relationship to them, they are not limited by that relationship. When they go to work they might be employee or employer, when they go home they may be spouse, parent, or child. Those are relationships, none of them are what they ARE.

UnDisfellowshipped

Tyre,

Good post!

In the Bible (even in the New World Translation!) The Holy Spirit is shown to be a Person because The Spirit:

* Is lied to

* Is blasphemed

* Teaches

* Speaks

* Hears

* Testifies

* Bears witness

* Has His own will

* Intercedes and pleads for us

* Knows all things

* Searches into all things

And, I love John Chapter 16 in the New World Translation! I bet the JW's don't read this Chapter very often -- here it is:

John Chapter 16 (NWT):

7 Nevertheless, I am telling YOU the truth, It is for YOUR benefit I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will by no means come to YOU ; but if I do go my way, I will send him to YOU . 8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and YOU will behold me no longer; 11 then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

12 ?I have many things yet to say to YOU , but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU . 15 All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU . 16 In a little while YOU will behold me no longer, and, again, in a little while YOU will see me.?

Kenneson

Mark,

"...none of them are what they ARE."

Say what? Whether they be friend, employer, employee, spouse, parent or child are they therefore not persons?

Tyre

Hello Mark,

(Matthew 12: 31-32 NWT) 31 ?On this account I say to YOU , Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.

After reading from Matthew above. Do you dare to speak a word against to Holy Spirit? Why so unforgiven? could you explain to me what does the bible said to you? Here is my other posts? http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/76300/1.ashx

To WHOM did Ananias lie?

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