Is there a "Finish Line" in the quest for "absolutes".

by gumby 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • gumby
    gumby
    Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.


    Main Entry: 1 ob·jec·tive
    Pronunciation: &b-'jek-tiv, äb-
    Function: adjective
    1 : of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers <objective reality>
    2 : perceptible to persons other than the affected individual objective symptom of disease> objective or subjective clinical improvement or both ?Journal of the American Medical Association> ?compare SUBJECTIVE 2b ?ob·jec·tive·ly adverb

    sub·jec·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s
    adj.

      1. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
      2. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
    1. Moodily introspective.
    2. Existing only in the mind; illusory.
    3. Psychology. Existing only within the experiencer's mind.
    4. Medicine. Of, relating to, or designating a symptom or condition perceived by the patient and not by the examiner.
    5. Expressing or bringing into prominence the individuality of the artist or author.
    6. Grammar. Relating to or being the nominative case.
    7. Relating to the real nature of something; essential.
    8. With the given definitions..........nothing is objective because every line of thought and teaching came from someones mind, somewhere, at some point in time. The only thing that seems to make anything objective or absolute............is the majority's viewpoint, and not the minority. What the majority experiences, see's, feels, hears, smells, tastes,......must be the truth.....so let's call "objective" what MOST AGREE UPON. That isn't objectivity or absolute...is it now?

      Minimus......thanks for your deep thoughts on this....it really helped

      Gumby

  • Terry
    Terry

    I like everything about the apple but the worm in it.

    I like everything about the mushroom except the poison in it.

    I like the look of the waxed fruit except for the nutritional value.

    I think Hitler had a lot of talent as a public speaker and leader; pity about all those deaths.

    All of the above are hyperbole, of course.

    The New World Society of Jehovah's Witnesses contains hundreds of thousands of wonderful people. But, as Forrest Gump was fond of telling us, "Stupid is as stupid does". Wonderful German people with smiling faces and a fondness for apple pie and mom went off and gassed six million Jews. JW's haven't gassed any Jews, no. But, what have all those smiling happy people done that might be equally injurious to humanity? It is a question worth asking.

    Let us ignore for a moment anybody who has died as a result of not taking a blood transfusion be they man woman or child. Let us ignore politically motivated killings of JW's by violent leaders in Africa, such as Malawi due to Governing Body dictums. Let us also set aside the brothers and sisters who read Judge Rutherford's articles in Watchtower or Awake! that vehemently denounced vaccinations as worthless medical procedures; or those who were told to cure apendicitis with olive oil, or who were warned against the poisons of aluminum cookware. Let us turn a blind eye to any who might have perished by believing that germs don't cause disease because of a health article given to them by the mouthpiece of god. None of those things will we count at all as "bad". What do we have left that would color Witnesses in a bad light?

    Ask yourselves who the real heroes in life are? Are they not the people who are doctors and nurses and teachers and firemen and policemen and psychiatrists and therapists etc?

    There are generations of those heroes who do NOT exist because Jehovah's Witnesses destroyed them all by their doctrines of Armageddon Now (nothing can be important such as education if the world is ending).

    There are no research scientists coming out of JW households unless they disdain the so-called Truth of Jehovah's "pure religion". No scientists at all. Why? They are choked off from the education and the ambition and the perspective that helping anybody is important unless that help is joining a Kingdom Hall.

    There are no JW charities, no JW hospitals, no JW daycare facilities, no JW nursing homes, no JW schools or colleges, no JW retirement plans, no JW mental health facilities---nothing at all. Why? Because Armageddon is coming and we don't need to "waste" our time with such "nonsense". Ha!

    What can you objectively say that is good about nice people with nice smiles who destroy all the futures of their children by smothering their sense of social responsibility?

    What kind word can you objectively offer that would do justice to a group that single-handedly eliminates millions of people from being of use to society? Jehovah's Witnesses regard everybody but themselves as corpses and vermin. Does this sound like Hitler's view of the Non-Aryans? Or am I reaching too far with my analogy?

    If you have a group of people who are like an apple with a worm in it, like waxed fruit who appear real but will poison you and who prevent smart and healthy kids from growing up to be doctors, nurses, firemen, policemen, researchers, school teachers, or mental health workers--what can you say about such a group at all that isn't negative and condemnatory and still be telling the truth about them?

    JW's aren't merely delusional. They are not merely mislead people who are otherwise honest. They are taught to defend lies and twist their own sense of honesty in the defense of policies and doctrines that destroy people's sense of being a citizen. How many political leaders come from among Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, etc? If JW's want to counter balance bad social policies and yet ignore the very meaning of what FREEDOM is all about by stifling patriotic participation in democracy---aren't they then fighters against democracy? Or, do they only avail themselves of the benefits and ignore the responsibility of freedom?

    If being a Jehovah's Witness is so wonderful, I might ask: "Wonderful for whom?"

    Are the children of JW parents given any kind of life or future at all except to be a Watchtower drone and magazine salesman? Will they ever know what life is really all about? Or, will their kids live on the threshold of fear of death at the hand of executioner angels if they seek a higher education or make friends with a kid who goes to a church?

    I think if we are honest, clinical and objective we will not need to be subjectively passionate in our choice of words describing the kind of people who steal the future of every man, woman and child they call upon with their depressing literature and phoney chronology and selfish and worthless social policies.

    JW's are a sick society of potentially wonderful human beings snatched from their own potential and persuaded, bullied and controlled to serve a slavemaster who uses them to proliferate propaganda about a world that does not, will not and should not ever exist!

    But, that's just my personal opinion. Ignore it if it sounds phoney and hysterical. I invite rebuttal as long as there are facts attached.

    Terry

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Gumby and Terry,

    Terry you are a breath of fresh air on this board. Love your manner and not to mention the substance of what you say.

    It has been over two years since I actually printed a thread........yesterday I printed your 'Serving Jehovah'....great stuff.

    My non ex-jw mate is at this very moment reading it. Thanks for your effort.

    Danny

  • gumby
    gumby

    Terry.....first off, this thread was not based on Jehovah's Witnesses as the theme. This thread was simply for what the title stated, with ANY subject being applied to it. I did thoroughly enjoy and relate to many things you said however.......except this,

    what can you say about such a group at all that isn't negative and condemnatory and still be telling the truth about them?

    You could say something like this. "The Jehovah's Witnesses teach you not to steal, commit adultry, to pay your taxes, to keep yourself clean of willful bodily harm, and to not kill others".

    Well?

    JW's aren't merely delusional. They are not merely mislead people who are otherwise honest.

    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't misled people?.... I was.......and so were about a shitload of others. I know 100's of honest Jehovah's Witnesses who are/ were honest. I was one of them. I totally diagree with you on this one my friend.....but no hard feelings.

    Your take on this is not taking into consideration that the rank and file are doing what their heart, soul, and mind, is telling them is correct. Yes......they are a destructive cult and the majority of them do not have a clue that they are such, but that doesn't negate the fact they perform good things in the technical sense, and the fact they are a ..."subjective" group.......who feel they have the patent on "Objectivity" and "Absolutes."

    Gumby

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Terry said; ****I think if we are honest, clinical and objective we will not need to be subjectively passionate in our choice of words describing the kind of people who steal the future of every man, woman and child they call upon with their depressing literature and phoney chronology and selfish and worthless social policies.

    JW's are a sick society of potentially wonderful human beings snatched from their own potential and persuaded, bullied and controlled to serve a slavemaster who uses them to proliferate propaganda about a world that does not, will not and should not ever exist!****

    Sounds objective enough for me!!!!!!!!!

    Love every word.

    Danny

  • gumby
    gumby

    Dannybear,

    Oh sure......Terry comes along and you come out of hiding! You cheatin bastard you.....I thought you loved me for who I am, and some new smart guy comes along.... and you dump my ass! I hate you, I hate you!

    *runs off holding hand over his mouth crying*

    Gumby

  • Valis
    Valis

    Gumbawler

  • minimus
    minimus

    What was da question, again??

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Gumbnations.......

    So I get fickel in my ole age. Shove it.

    If Theresa Kerry can say it publicly and have admiring liberal minds drool all over her smart mouth..........Shove it!

    Danny

  • sf
    sf

    Terry,

    In my opinion, that was a most excellent post. And right now, I am in process of posting it, verbatim, in the jw/exjw chatroom on yahoo.

    It's funny, when I paste these types of 'truth posts', as I call them, the chatters start leaving, one by one.

    And hugs for {{ dannybear }}. I love to see your posts baby. Take good care.

    sKally

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